The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Hintza

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Sturgeon's waiting for obvious reasons. No 1 being the obvious fact that she knows she can't win

Sorted that for you

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Doubtful based on current voting patterns and recent polling trends which have the SNP holding steady as well as independence support ( <-- with no campaign on the go ).

That's just it though, a failed 2nd referendum coupled with abysmal governance in the meantime will make many question their vote for the SNP, and that along with the opposition parties traditional votes knowing they have to align to beat the SNP will mean in my opinion that it'll be a head to head fight between the SNP and the Conservatives in Scotland. With the SNP only able to muster at most ~45% of the electorate, and that's whilst riding high it looks like a Conservative government in Holyrood is incoming. Not because people in Scotland love them, but because they hate the SNP, their policies and I would imagine for some it would be because of the mendacious SNP support too.

It's last chance saloon for the SNP and the independence argument. Get it wrong now and you'll be on the end of a whipping. Gunning for a referendum now before all of your ducks are in a row will ensure that, the arguments for independence don't stack up, from any perspective, political, social, economic, it's a tragedy of group (non)think gone horribly wrong that they're in power now. If independence made sense, you would have achieved it in 2014, the EU changes nothing, 80,000 jobs vs 1,000,000 jobs, changes nothing. If you had an argument to win over support in Scotland you would have posted it on here by now and we wouldn't be able to refute it. There isn't one, except mendacious propaganda (see lies) that's easily disproved. I assume you're pinning your hopes of winning over those who cannot see through the memes and myths, hope that they're stupid enough basically.

When you're asking people to destroy a country with over 300 years of history, I don't think they will do it based on SNP and independence campaign lies. The only thing the Unionist side need to is show the SNP and independence campaigns for what they are and it's in the bag. I know it, Scots know it, other posters on here know it, and so do you.

elantan

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

The public are going to have to "suck it up" too. And after the entire term in office they will be out on their ear, however this possible indy referendum will be a chance for the public to voice their discontent with the SNP let alone the independence campaign.

Weren't they meant to be out on their ear already ? Instead of getting even more votes ... shockaroonie

CLAPTON

elantan wrote: »

Weren't they meant to be out on their ear already ? Instead of getting even more votes ... shockaroonie

no, the many and continuing insults to the great leader of the scots, has consolidaled support for her and has been caused increasing support of Iscotland on a daily basis over the last 2 years.
It will soon reach 100% when dithering Nicola will write a one page memo demanding a referendum and saying what currency Iscotland will use.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

That's just it though, a failed 2nd referendum coupled with abysmal governance in the meantime will make many question their vote for the SNP, and that along with the opposition parties traditional votes knowing they have to align to beat the SNP will mean in my opinion that it'll be a head to head fight between the SNP and the Conservatives in Scotland. With the SNP only able to muster at most ~45% of the electorate, and that's whilst riding high it looks like a Conservative government in Holyrood is incoming. Not because people in Scotland love them, but because they hate the SNP, their policies and I would imagine for some it would be because of the mendacious SNP support too.

It's last chance saloon for the SNP and the independence argument. Get it wrong now and you'll be on the end of a whipping. Gunning for a referendum now before all of your ducks are in a row will ensure that, the arguments for independence don't stack up, from any perspective, political, social, economic, it's a tragedy of group (non)think gone horribly wrong that they're in power now. If independence made sense, you would have achieved it in 2014, the EU changes nothing, 80,000 jobs vs 1,000,000 jobs, changes nothing. If you had an argument to win over support in Scotland you would have posted it on here by now and we wouldn't be able to refute it. There isn't one, except mendacious propaganda (see lies) that's easily disproved. I assume you're pinning your hopes of winning over those who cannot see through the memes and myths, hope that they're stupid enough basically.

When you're asking people to destroy a country with over 300 years of history, I don't think they will do it based on SNP and independence campaign lies. The only thing the Unionist side need to is show the SNP and independence campaigns for what they are and it's in the bag. I know it, Scots know it, other posters on here know it, and so do you.

But that's just it. Your take and assessment of what's really going on in Scotland at the moment is so off I don't even know where to start with it. It's just plain wrong. This comes from places, discussion forums like this and comments sections in newspapers where folks that actually live in Scotland are outnumbered 10 to 1 at least. It gives you a really false impression of what's going on. You don't live here, and folks like Hintza are so blinded by the SNP they can't see anything else.

There is NO chance whatsoever of Ruth Davidson or the Tories going head to head with the SNP in the near future. They threw everything they had at the last election and still only ended up with 22%. That's dire stuff when one thinks about it. There is no chance of a Conservative Govt in Holyrood. There never really has been since it's inception either. Scottish Labour aligning with the Tories has already devastated their core vote and they won't repeat it. They're sitting at 16% currently in Scottish polls and their only chance to redeem anything is to start punting independence as an option. Once Dugdale goes, it's a real possibility too.

In short your opinion is pure fantasy land with no basis in reality in current Scottish politics. Another referendum or vote is inevitable if Scotland is looking like having to leave the Single Market because Sturgeon and Harvie ( as were all the other parties prior to the Brexit vote ) are convinced leaving it will be catastrophic to Scotland's interests. There are still many convinced the same fate is in store for the UK. We all know iScotland/rUK trade won't stop anymore than UK/EU trade will stop after Brexit so there's little point in you pretending otherwise.

Leave the EU and the Single Market if that's what you want to do as an English voter. But you won't be taking Scotland with you without a vote on it in Scotland first. End of story.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

But that's just it. Your take and assessment of what's really going on in Scotland at the moment is so off I don't even know where to start with it. It's just plain wrong. This comes from places, discussion forums like this and comments sections in newspapers where folks that actually live in Scotland are outnumbered 10 to 1 at least. It gives you a really false impression of what's going on. You don't live here, and folks like Hintza are so blinded by the SNP they can't see anything else.

There is NO chance whatsoever of Ruth Davidson or the Tories going head to head with the SNP in the near future. They threw everything they had at the last election and still only ended up with 22%. That's dire stuff when one thinks about it. There is no chance of a Conservative Govt in Holyrood. There never really has been since it's inception either. Scottish Labour aligning with the Tories has already devastated their core vote and they won't repeat it. They're sitting at 16% currently in Scottish polls and their only chance to redeem anything is to start punting independence as an option. Once Dugdale goes, it's a real possibility too.

In short your opinion is pure fantasy land with no basis in reality in current Scottish politics. Another referendum or vote is inevitable if Scotland is looking like having to leave the Single Market because Sturgeon and Harvie ( as were all the other parties prior to the Brexit vote ) are convinced leaving it will be catastrophic to Scotland's interests. There are still many convinced the same fate is in store for the UK. We all know iScotland/rUK trade won't stop anymore than UK/EU trade will stop after Brexit so there's little point in you pretending otherwise.

Leave the EU and the Single Market if that's what you want to do as an English voter. But you won't be taking Scotland with you without a vote on it in Scotland first. End of story.

Missing all the pointers as you're blind to what you do not want to see.

Revisit this in a year or two if a referendum happens, and again in 3 and you can try to tell me I'm wrong just because I don't live in Scotland lol

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Missing all the pointers as you're blind to what you do not want to see.

Revisit this in a year or two if a referendum happens, and again in 3 and you can try to tell me I'm wrong just because I don't live in Scotland lol

I didn't miss any pointers. All there was was some fantasy politics about Conservative governance in Holyrood and some blabbing on about unionist campaign tactics in the event of another referendum.

Newsflash for you. We've gotten very used to unionist campaigning up here. It's not working as well as it used to and that has some folks worried. All the oil price crashes and deficits in the world haven't shifted opinion in well over two years now. Nor done the SNP any harm in day to day politics or votes. Time to move on now from desperate predictions of the SNP's imminent demise because it's not happening currently. Nor is independence support. And when there is a second vote, you'd be very well advised to recognise and face those facts head on.

Your average Scottish voter has a very different take on things than you do... which isn't really surprising because they aren't sucking up 24/7 Daily Express, Mail and Telegraph headlines the way you and other posters here do. Scottish newspaper editions would be far too scared to print most of it for fear of boosting independence still further.

mollycat

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Your average Scottish voter has a very different take on things than you do... which isn't really surprising because they aren't sucking up 24/7 Daily Express, Mail and Telegraph headlines the way you and other posters here do. Scottish newspaper editions would be far too scared to print most of it for fear of boosting independence still further.

This is the point of view that is out of touch!

Ignore twitter, online comments sections, Facebook etc, etc.

Spend a little bit of time away from the self serving bubble of Indy supporters that echo every single thought, word and action you have and confirm it's validity.

Go outside, open your eyes to the real Scotland......

No one is all that bothered about Brexit.

No one is fanatically debating Independence, (other than to moan about the possibility of a 2nd referendum).

Hardly anyone is hoovering up every single blog, tweet, quote in the political arena then processing it through a warped world view to manufacture grudge and "disadvantage"....you might find this surprising, but the vast majority of Scots are getting on with their lives, thankful for their lot and are not overtly political.

This vast majority have the insight and intelligence to appreciate the benefits they enjoy come from a country (UK), and the grace to accept they get a better deal from WM than some regions.

This of course is slightly mitigated by the enormous hash the Hollyrood administration is making of running aspects of the economy and services up here; this is helping people realise what a catastrophe independence would be and also more able to see through the lies they were told in 2014.

If you didhave the ability to open your eyes you would see people walking away from the ideology of Independence and the SNP and embracing the theme of Better Together much more decisively than 2014, because of Brexit, not despite it.

The only thing about posting what you guys do here that it highlights the flaws, inconsistencies and outright untruths of the hard core of (say 25%) who still seek independence.

It's like a crazy person standing on the street corner shouting that the world is flat; people have stopped listening, now they're just laughing.

gfplux

mollycat wrote: »

This is the point of view that is out of touch!

Ignore twitter, online comments sections, Facebook etc, etc.

Spend a little bit of time away from the self serving bubble of Indy supporters that echo every single thought, word and action you have and confirm it's validity.

Go outside, open your eyes to the real Scotland......

No one is all that bothered about Brexit.

No one is fanatically debating Independence, (other than to moan about the possibility of a 2nd referendum).

Hardly anyone is hoovering up every single blog, tweet, quote in the political arena then processing it through a warped world view to manufacture grudge and "disadvantage"....you might find this surprising, but the vast majority of Scots are getting on with their lives, thankful for their lot and are not overtly political.

This vast majority have the insight and intelligence to appreciate the benefits they enjoy come from a country (UK), and the grace to accept they get a better deal from WM than some regions.

This of course is slightly mitigated by the enormous hash the Hollyrood administration is making of running aspects of the economy and services up here; this is helping people realise what a catastrophe independence would be and also more able to see through the lies they were told in 2014.

If you didhave the ability to open your eyes you would see people walking away from the ideology of Independence and the SNP and embracing the theme of Better Together much more decisively than 2014, because of Brexit, not despite it.

The only thing about posting what you guys do here that it highlights the flaws, inconsistencies and outright untruths of the hard core of (say 25%) who still seek independence.

It's like a crazy person standing on the street corner shouting that the world is flat; people have stopped listening, now they're just laughing.

Thank you mollycat.
I assume you live in Scotland and have your ear to the ground.
So many have opinions about what others think based on what they have read, NOT on what they have seen and experienced with their own ears and eyes.
Too many posters here do not fill their location in on the MSE user CP which I know has a bearing on the views expressed.

kabayiri

A point I'm not clear on.

What's the point in voting for independence anchored to staying in the EU, if you don't know for definite if the EU 27 will accept your application; or indeed any timescale behind it?