The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

elantan wrote: »

She didn't say she won't hold one in 2018 though did she ? That's when a few on here ( myself included) suggest one should happen ... I reckon approx 18 months after article 50 has been triggered ( maybe a tad earlier weather wise) others suggest different dates

But the fact she has said it hopefully means labour and the Tories will now stop bleating on about taking a referendum off the table ... that gets awfy boring to hear after a while

Shoots some Scottish Tory/Labour and Lib Dem foxes in time for the more pressing council elections in May. They're likely to try and turn it into a de facto independence ref. However, with the newspapers now full of unionist journo's wiping sweaty brows in relief and dedicating acres of column to how Nicola isn't calling an indy ref....

2018/early 2019 at the latest. Brexit consequences, the chaotic in-fighting that will take place in both UK Labour and the Tory party during, the vanishing hope of a Labour govt in 2020 and the full prospects of another decade of right wing Tory Govt.. all need to be seen by Scots voters first.

Pro indy people want to win a referendum. Not just hold one. I'm happy to have a little more patience as required.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

yes awfully boring

there is only one important fact : what do the pro indy polls say ; absolutley nothing else matters to our dithering Nicola

Only a fool believes polls remain static forever. Particularly during referendum campaign periods. You of all people should know that. You'd given up on a Leave vote weeks before the vote on here I recall, due to thinking polls wouldn't shift and should be taken as gospel no matter what.

I remember telling you not to lose hope just yet..

Oooh 5000 posts. Go me !

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Only a fool believes polls remain static forever. Particularly during referendum campaign periods. You of all people should know that. You'd given up on a Leave vote weeks before the vote on here I recall, due to thinking polls wouldn't shift and should be taken as gospel no matter what.

I remember telling you not to lose hope just yet..

Oooh 5000 posts. Go me !

as you know, there is no-one more dedicated to scottish independence than me.

of course it will reduce the national security of both scotland and england
reduce the income of the scots
potentially create problems with the borders if the scots are mad enough to joint the EU and much worse if they join the euro
however the coming of age of the scots will make it worthwhile;
to stop the racism, to stand on their own feet, to grow up and accept that they are masters/mistresses of their own destiny and that the world (well the english) don't owe them a living, will make the suffering worthwhile
while it will be sad to see the brightest and best young scots flock down to London, nevertheless in 100 years of so the job will be done.

anyway that is by the bye, the polls do not seem to be obeying Nicola's rule that every act by London is another few points for the YES vote

Hintza

Oh dear what a shame. Looks like the house of cards is starting to fold.

The Advisory Board of Bella Caledonia confirms we are going to have to make the decision to close, unless an urgent fundraising appeal can be met. Mike Small has advised that despite his commitment to Bella, he will have to step down as editor as the position is too financially precarious and he is actively seeking other work. The Board is looking at other funding models and is appealing for urgent help to finance the magazine in a more permanent way in a year when a second independence referendum is very likely to be called. Regardless of the outcome the Board and contributors of Bella would like to thank Mike for his years of work – mostly unpaid but always cheerful, professional, imaginative and dedicated. Mike and our diverse range of writers have made Bella a successful online magazine and we hope that legacy can continue in some form. We thank you for your support and patience in this time as we decide how to continue. The Bella Oidhche Challain cèilidh will still take place this Thursday in the Glad Cafe at 19:30.

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2017/01/08/statement-from-the-bella-caledonia-board/

Thrugelmir

elantan wrote: »

She didn't say she won't hold one in 2018 though did she ?

That's not what I was commenting on. Stand back and look at the bigger picture. Something I learnt many moons ago. Stops one becoming a sheep aimlessly following.

Conrad

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Shoots some Scottish Tory/Labour and Lib Dem foxes in time for the more pressing council elections in May. They're likely to try and turn it into a de facto independence ref. However, with the newspapers now full of unionist journo's wiping sweaty brows in relief and dedicating acres of column to how Nicola isn't calling an indy ref....

2018/early 2019 at the latest. Brexit consequences, the chaotic in-fighting that will take place in both UK Labour and the Tory party during, the vanishing hope of a Labour govt in 2020 and the full prospects of another decade of right wing Tory Govt.. all need to be seen by Scots voters first.

Pro indy people want to win a referendum. Not just hold one. I'm happy to have a little more patience as required.

A prediction, make a note; the Tories will fare ever better going forwards, as the Nats keep failing to deliver worthwhile outcomes aside from shovelling ever more welfare out the door

Shakethedisease

Hintza wrote: »

Oh dear what a shame. Looks like the house of cards is starting to fold.



http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2017/01/08/statement-from-the-bella-caledonia-board/

A RISE/Radical left wing blog closing down ? Hardly. Will be a shame if it really does close, I know it caters for a particular set of readership who really love it. Got a bit too airy fairy for me though. Tended to go on a bit too much and present arguments about what Scotland should be like after independence ( from a very left leaning point of view ).. without actually addressing getting independence first. Most pro indy's are focused on the tiny matter of getting independence first and foremost. Bella did a bit of damage to themselves in the run up to the last Holyrood elections sadly with this stance. And they definitely overestimated the appetite for the new RISE party.

Hope they do survive though.

Shakethedisease

Conrad wrote: »

A prediction, make a note; the Tories will fare ever better going forwards, as the Nats keep failing to deliver worthwhile outcomes aside from shovelling ever more welfare out the door

No notes need taken. Labour and the Conservatives will do better than expected in the council elections in May due to the nature of the STV voting system. However Labour are starting from the higher ground and these are the last bastions of theirs to lose in Scotland. If they lose too many of them, or it's proved that they relied on transferable votes from Tories in too many areas. Kezia Dugdale will go. To be replaced by someone who isn't quite as keen on staying in the UK at any cost as she is. She'll be replaced by someone who wants full federalism and significantly more powers for Scotland, even to the extent of supporting a second referendum if it comes to it. UK Labour has given up on the Union as it is already.

2 days ago

UK Labour shadow chancellor John McDonnell has called for a "radical federal" UK. The move would signal a major change in the UK Labour Party's position when it comes to the constitutional settlement in Britain.
The Sunday Herald has also learned that other senior figures in Jeremy Corbyn's shadow cabinet are also looking at formally adopting federalism as party policy.
Last night, McDonnell, Corbyn's closest ally, gave the clearest indication yet that Labour will legislate for the UK to become a federal state if it wins the next General Election.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/15009188.UK_Labour_shadow_chancellor_calls_for_a__radical_federal__UK_as_Labour_shifts_ground_on_union/?commentSort=newest

The next elections after that are a UK General election in 2020, and the Scottish general elections in 2021. If it's to be a hard Brexit out of the Single market... then take note. There will be an independence referendum first before either of those occur. It'll be a straight choice between the Tories and independence by then. How do you think that will go, campaigning wise for everyone ?

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

No notes need taken. Labour and the Conservatives will do better than expected in the council elections in May due to the nature of the STV voting system. However Labour are starting from the higher ground and these are the last bastions of theirs to lose in Scotland. If they lose too many of them, or it's proved that they relied on transferable votes from Tories in too many areas. Kezia Dugdale will go. To be replaced by someone who isn't quite as keen on staying in the UK at any cost as she is. She'll be replaced by someone who wants full federalism and significantly more powers for Scotland, even to the extent of supporting a second referendum if it comes to it. UK Labour has given up on the Union as it is already.

2 days agohttp://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/15009188.UK_Labour_shadow_chancellor_calls_for_a__radical_federal__UK_as_Labour_shifts_ground_on_union/?commentSort=newest

The next elections after that are a UK General election in 2020, and the Scottish general elections in 2021. If it's to be a hard Brexit out of the Single market... then take note. There will be an independence referendum first before either of those occur. It'll be a straight choice between the Tories and independence by then. How do you think that will go, campaigning wise for everyone ?

I hope you, the SNP and the independence brigade do adopt this strategy of campaigning against the Conservatives "with independence in mind".

It's a tactical nuclear error, I can't wait to see the end result to be able to say I told you so. Hopefully after such a damning result it'll be the death knell for all this stupidity. Because you still can't tell us why Scotland would be economically better off outside of the UK and inside the EU. So you harp on about the Conservatives, it's your go to line. I wonder if that edict came down from HQ?

mayonnaise

elantan wrote: »

She didn't say she won't hold one in 2018 though did she ? That's when a few on here ( myself included) suggest one should happen ... I reckon approx 18 months after article 50 has been triggered ( maybe a tad earlier weather wise) others suggest different dates

Nicola has time on her side.
With the UK sliding into brexit recession, the case for union will become feebler by the day.