The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

Thrugelmir wrote: »

My friends who work in the NHS are disgusted with the potrayal in the news. As one put it how can you compare a hospital ED department with Alleppo. Alleppo is a humaritarian crisis. A wait for treatment isn't comparable. Nor is the UK Red Cross comparable with it's international namesake. Try spending 2 years in Afghanistan working for the Red Cross treating children who've walked on land mines. That'll put the UK's current NHS crisis into a much clearer perspective.

The same. One of the reported regions in "crisis" is where I live, we're served by EMAS. It's not factually correct in my own personal experience, nor is it factually correct in the opinion of my sister who happens to be an intensive care unit nurse. The NHS is a political football for politicians and the media.

I'm afraid it's a massive load of overblown horse manure to sell stories and get clicks. There are issues, sometimes, but it is not the norm, it is not a crisis and it is not due to funding. If you go into the A&E departments and see the ridiculously pathetic issues people go in there for it does open your eyes, the staff are absolutely correct when they say that people should only go to A&E when it's serious. The last time I was in there (crushed big toe, blood pouring everywhere and passing in/out of consciousness) there were people in there for sprained ankles! I was scheduled to be seen after them until my wife and father kicked off because they were not operating a triage service - they've since changed (not because of my family I imagine) and now operate a triage and it's much improved. Clearly a management error rather than operational to dispense with the triage service. A&E performance at our local has improved dramatically since.

elantan

I do get what your saying and fully agree with the political football stuff ... and Scotland certainly isn't perfect by any standard

The thought of someone lying in a corridor whilst waiting for a bed for 35 hours then having a cardiac arrest horrified me though ( not that I blame the NHS for someone having a cardiac arrest, these things can't always be helped and the person may have had a DNACPR for all we know).. yes it certainly isn't Alleppo and should never have been compared to that ( I didn't see the news only heard on radio and didn't hear any comparison but do understand it was made) but surely that situation is unacceptable ?

Surely that is a sign of a NHS in crisis ?

CLAPTON

elantan wrote: »

I do get what your saying and fully agree with the political football stuff ... and Scotland certainly isn't perfect by any standard

The thought of someone lying in a corridor whilst waiting for a bed for 35 hours then having a cardiac arrest horrified me though ( not that I blame the NHS for someone having a cardiac arrest, these things can't always be helped and the person may have had a DNACPR for all we know).. yes it certainly isn't Alleppo and should never have been compared to that ( I didn't see the news only heard on radio and didn't hear any comparison but do understand it was made) but surely that situation is unacceptable ?

Surely that is a sign of a NHS in crisis ?

its certainly worth the people of scotland remembering that they get about £3k per family more than the people of Yorkshire : maybe the some of that money is spent of the scottish NHS.

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

I do get what your saying and fully agree with the political football stuff ... and Scotland certainly isn't perfect by any standard

The thought of someone lying in a corridor whilst waiting for a bed for 35 hours then having a cardiac arrest horrified me though ( not that I blame the NHS for someone having a cardiac arrest, these things can't always be helped and the person may have had a DNACPR for all we know).. yes it certainly isn't Alleppo and should never have been compared to that ( I didn't see the news only heard on radio and didn't hear any comparison but do understand it was made) but surely that situation is unacceptable ?

Surely that is a sign of a NHS in crisis ?

It further encourages me that staff should be allowed to triage and send some people home. Honestly there was a Polish guy in there about an ankle being stiff a few days after he'd sprained it. The time I went was so stereotypical it was almost funny. Gypsies, Poles, and native British wasting people's time and money in A&E. I'm not at all surprised that it struggles to cope with the amount of idiots who use it as a GP surgery on steroids.

davomcdave

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

It further encourages me that staff should be allowed to triage and send some people home. Honestly there was a Polish guy in there about an ankle being stiff a few days after he'd sprained it. The time I went was so stereotypical it was almost funny. Gypsies, Poles, and native British wasting people's time and money in A&E. I'm not at all surprised that it struggles to cope with the amount of idiots who use it as a GP surgery on steroids.

Isn't that simply a result of it being free? If you're invited to use a service for nothing then of course you'll turn up with trivial complaints. If users had to pay a tenner then perhaps they'd think twice.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Is always the same story when the Tories are in charge of the NHS. People lying on trolleys in corridors for days and hospitals shutting their doors. I remember it last time round too.

Meanwhile...

Ahem.
Consider where NHS problems originated:

Labour may have created the NHS seven decades ago, but its recent record is ropey. Yes, the party deserves credit under Tony Blair for pumping in cash to a service gasping for resources, but many problems that have stretched services and jeopardised patient care can be traced back to their 13 years in office.
Take the disastrous contract for GPs, pouring cash into their pockets yet allowing most to abandon emergency cover – a key driver of pressures on A&E, since almost a quarter of unplanned attendances are patients unable to see family doctors. Or the money-saving merger of three disparate regulators into one mega-watchdog, the Care Quality Commission (CQC), which then concentrated on registering dentists while scaling back the safeguarding of patients in care homes and hospitals. In addition, £10bn was blown on Blair’s vainglorious computer project, and billions more on Gordon Brown’s wasteful private finance initiative schemes.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/20/tory-beat-labour-nhs

No political party is free of blame but to lay blame solely at the door of the tory party is disingenuous.
And that without even considering an increasingly aged together with an ever larger population.
More people?
More elderly people too?
Why then should it be a surprise that resources allocated years ago cannot cope?
The entire system needs radical reformation - but that discussion may be better served in a different thread.

Shakethedisease

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Ahem.
Consider where NHS problems originated:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/20/tory-beat-labour-nhs

No political party is free of blame but to lay blame solely at the door of the tory party is disingenuous.
And that without even considering an increasingly aged together with an ever larger population.
More people?
More elderly people too?
Why then should it be a surprise that resources allocated years ago cannot cope?
The entire system needs radical reformation - but that discussion may be better served in a different thread.

I have no idea. I was pointing out that the last time the Tories were in power newspaper headlines were routinely filled with horror stories about people lying ( and dying ) on trollies while waiting for beds, and A and E departments shutting their doors. You must remember it ? It's one of the reasons one of the mantra's often said is that people should never trust the Tories on the NHS.

It would also be pertinent to point out on this thread that it's not the UK NHS. It's the English NHS where the word 'crisis' is now being applied. While the Scottish NHS faces big challenges of course, there's a difference between facing challenges and a full blown crisis.

The Scottish media/Labour party try and invent a Scottish NHS crisis every few weeks. But in the words of Lloyd Bridges in Airplane... 'I guess we picked the wrong week to..... ' try and punt a false hysterical line about cancelled ops.

In 2016 up to Nov there were 332,334 operations in Scottish NHS 7,096 were cancelled on capacity/non-clinical That's 2.1%. A 97.9% success rate.

Not when this story about the English NHS is front and center. Kind of puts all those assertions about the SNP and a 'failing crisis ridden' Scottish NHS into context a bit doesn't it. When compared.

Politically, this is going to be jumped on and never let go by UK Labour and the other parties. May and Hunt are in for a very rough few weeks.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Oh come on, despite the best attempts at media hype I think we both know that this alleged "crisis" - which has already been debunked BTW - will certainly NOT lead to your "very rough few weeks".

You speak of "pertinent" and then attempt to deflect with figures you perceive as showing the excellence of NHS Scotland.
So let's discuss Scottish NHS instead.
Specifically regarding usage of the word "crisis"?
Here are just two fairly recent examples:

Health boards missed seven out of eight key performance targets, Audit Scotland has found.

https://stv.tv/news/politics/1371114-nhs-facing-crisis-in-scotland-with-unprecedented-cuts-needed/

Audit Scotland has issued a strong warning about the state of the NHS in Scotland. It says the NHS is underfunded, has been unable to reform and faces unprecedented savings targets. Opposition parties have attacked the Scottish government for this, cutting into the SNP’s reputation for competence.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/28/scotland-nhs-crisis-snp-brexit-nicola-sturgeon

elantan

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

It further encourages me that staff should be allowed to triage and send some people home. Honestly there was a Polish guy in there about an ankle being stiff a few days after he'd sprained it. The time I went was so stereotypical it was almost funny. Gypsies, Poles, and native British wasting people's time and money in A&E. I'm not at all surprised that it struggles to cope with the amount of idiots who use it as a GP surgery on steroids.

I totally agree there are certainly a lot of people that do abuse our NHS no matter where they live

Shakethedisease

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Oh come on, despite the best attempts at media hype I think we both know that this alleged "crisis" - which has already been debunked BTW - will certainly NOT lead to your "very rough few weeks".

You speak of "pertinent" and then attempt to deflect with figures you perceive as showing the excellence of NHS Scotland.
So let's discuss Scottish NHS instead.
Specifically regarding usage of the word "crisis"?
Here are just two fairly recent examples:

https://stv.tv/news/politics/1371114-nhs-facing-crisis-in-scotland-with-unprecedented-cuts-needed/


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/28/scotland-nhs-crisis-snp-brexit-nicola-sturgeon

See the below headline and report ?

NHS Scotland faces 'significant challenges,' warns auditor

Audit Scotland says despite good progress of Scottish NHS, pressure of costs and demand is building

https://www.theguardian.com/healthcare-network/2011/dec/19/auditor-scotland-nhs-significant-challenges

It's from Dec 2011. Almost exactly the same as the 2016 headlines.

Some NHS boards 'may not balance books'

The public spending watchdog said the health service needed to make unprecedented savings in 2016/17.
And it said NHS funding was not keeping pace with increasing demand on the service.

Both reports however, go on to acknowledge that improvements are happening and are still being made in significant areas. But the articles and could almost come from the same report if you read through them.
Also targets, the targets have been set far higher than when Labour were in power by the SNP themselves. 'Missing targets' is an easy soundbite for the other parties who rarely bother to qualify where the targets used to be for context.

That being said no one is claiming the Scottish NHS is perfect or doesn't have significant shortfalls. Definitely not.

However, Scottish Labour and their tame media of endless press releases have cried wolf soooo often over the SNHS, (it seems to go in a revolving manner between the NHS/Police/Education)... that most cannot tell fact from fiction anymore and have to rely on and go by their own experiences. Which on the whole/in general seems to have been good given recent patient satisfaction surveys which you can look up for yourself if you care to.

I do reckon that May is in for a tough time over the next few weeks.