The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

I don't follow Scottish spending too closely, so this is a genuine question.

What particular evidence is there that Westminster is targetting cutbacks at Scotland?

Despite austerity claims, state spending is still very high, especially the purse of public sector employees. And Scotland has more than it's fair share of public sector employees.

Then there is the continuing tax break support for the oil industry whilst prices are depressed.

The need to redirect spend to other parts of the UK seems justified, given that the majority of the population growth is happening outside of the North.

Given money is precious, where do you propose to take from to give more to Scotland?

It's more the policies. Scots don't like policies like these for example. Certainly not when there's money for tax cuts. Davidson is going to have a terrible time selling this sort of thing.

Westminster's looming 'Bedroom Tax Two' will create spike in debt and homelessness

A FRESH bout of welfare cuts - dubbed "the Bedroom Tax 2" - threatens to undermine housebuilding projects, increase homelessness, and weaken public sector finances across Scotland, it has been claimed.
Payments to help tenants meet their social housing costs will be capped by the UK Government for the first time, The Herald can reveal, with younger renters facing cuts to their housing benefit of up to one quarter.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/News/14998284.Westminster__39_s_looming___39_Bedroom_Tax_Two__39__will_create_spike_in_debt_and_homelessness__housing_sector_warns/?ref=rl&lp=2

elantan

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/03/banks-consider-contingency-plans-brexit-looms?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-2

The promised land of milk and honey is running out of milk and honey

Oh dear ... starting to heat up a bit now

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Not telling at all. All political parties do it to each other. Unless you're a special snowflake who thinks politics is conducted using angel dust and wishes..

However, Scots voters have, even when the rest of the UK has consistently voted differently ( for example during the Thatcher years ) been very amenable to voting patterns in order to 'keep the Tories out'. And politically, during an indy ref scenario it's the one huge factor that Labour, and the entirety of Scottish media will find very difficult to counter in any way.

No no, you misunderstand.

What's telling is that you think campaigning for independence on an anti-Conservative platform is going to work. Instead of telling everyone why independence is better for their wallet/purse, children, employment security, social security, pensions, health, etc...

Do you honestly believe people will vote to leave the UK (causing major economic harm, greater than that of leaving the EU) because they believe you when you say some posh toffs are destroying the NHS? You're advocating for the greatest threat to your social health, welfare and care systems in history. When the veil of deceit is drawn and the NHS is clearly still here and has been for decades but the lies the SNP tell are clear for all to see, is campaigning on an anti-Conservative platform going to pay dividends?

It sounds like you're counting on the people of Scotland being complete idiots. Which they're not.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I doesn't matter if it is that way for many people if it's not the majority in a democracy. And there is nothing to indicate that is the case.

You're going to have to accept that, even if you don't like it.

I forgot to link you to this poll from during the last indy ref. Telling....;)

Prospect of Tory government would see most Scots back independence

More than half of Scots would be likely to vote for independence if they believed the Tories would be returned to power in Westminster at the next general election, a new poll has found.

The Panelbase poll for The Sunday Times and Real Radio Scotland found 37% of Scots agreed the country should be independent, with 45% opposed.


When it asked voters what they would do if they felt the 2015 UK general election would result in either a majority Conservative government at Westminster or another Tory-Liberal Democrat coalition, 52% said this would make them likely to vote in favour of Scotland leaving the UK.

https://stv.tv/news/politics/195856-prospect-of-tory-government-would-see-most-scots-back-independence/

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I forgot to link you to this poll from during the last indy ref. Telling....;)

https://stv.tv/news/politics/195856-prospect-of-tory-government-would-see-most-scots-back-independence/

I'm not even going to bother pointing out the frailties in the poll you just posted, you know them yourself as will others if they care to look at it.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

No no, you misunderstand.

What's telling is that you think campaigning for independence on an anti-Conservative platform is going to work. Instead of telling everyone why independence is better for their wallet/purse, children, employment security, social security, pensions, health, etc...

Do you honestly believe people will vote to leave the UK (causing major economic harm, greater than that of leaving the EU) because they believe you when you say some posh toffs are destroying the NHS? You're advocating for the greatest threat to your social health, welfare and care systems in history. When the veil of deceit is drawn and the NHS is clearly still here and has been for decades but the lies the SNP tell are clear for all to see, is campaigning on an anti-Conservative platform going to pay dividends?

It sounds like you're counting on the people of Scotland being complete idiots. Which they're not.

Hyperbole at best. Scotland is just as capable as any other normal country at running their own affairs. Nothing idiotic about it.Anti-Tory messages are the norm in Scotland and always have been politically for the last four or five decades. Pointing out to posters here that the EU is not perhaps going to take center stage in a second independence referendum is simply a friendly heads up for you.

While you lot are going to be banging on about Spain and vetoes and the EU collapsing in the UK press and media. It's a very strong anti-Tory message the independence campaign will be sending out Scotland wide. Scottish Labour cannot hope to counter it. And Davidson doesn't have the numbers behind her neither on the ground in terms of activists, nor full support from a largely Labour leaning press.

I'm only giving you a likely idea of what's ahead should a second ref be called, and showing you how the language is changing even in the last few days. The EU will be important, but not as important as you seem to think.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I'm not even going to bother pointing out the frailties in the poll you just posted, you know them yourself as will others if they care to look at it.

Something against Panelbase ?

It was the only time the question was asked during the entire campaign. The prospect of a Conservative Govt certainly swung a few % points Yes's way didn't it.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Hyperbole at best. Scotland is just as capable as any other normal country at running their own affairs. Nothing idiotic about it.Anti-Tory messages are the norm in Scotland and always have been politically for the last four or five decades. Pointing out to posters here that the EU is not perhaps going to take center stage in a second independence referendum is simply a friendly heads up for you.

While you lot are going to be banging on about Spain and vetoes and the EU collapsing in the UK press and media. It's a very strong anti-Tory message the independence campaign will be sending out Scotland wide. Scottish Labour cannot hope to counter it. And Davidson doesn't have the numbers behind her neither on the ground in terms of activists, nor full support from a largely Labour leaning press.

I'm only giving you a likely idea of what's ahead should a second ref be called, and showing you how the language is changing even in the last few days. The EU will be important, but not as important as you seem to think.

They will change the language to attack the Conservatives because everyone knows the real deal on the table. Everyone here attacking the independence and SNP position knows this. You're trying to say the goalposts are moving but you're playing on your own pitch, everyone else will still live in reality (to keep with the analogy). As the vote moves closer it'll be less about what you want it to be and more about the real issues, where you, the SNP and the indy movement get torn to shreds.

How on earth you believe you can and should (?) win independence by campaigning as anti conservative to me is incredible and shows a massive disrespect for fellow Scots who are not devout believers in SNP ideology. They would feel this and reject you and yours, and rightly so. Failing to talk about the real issues appears to be a running theme with the SNP. If the independence movement adopt the same mantra you'll simply hasten the failure.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

I see this thread is going from the sublime to the ridiculous again.
The only thing "heating up" is the amount of absolute drivel being posted, even for this thread.

With links and quotes now over four years old as supposed support for what is happening today, in very different times as I'm sure anyone would agree.
TrickyTree is being very polite, mentionining "frailties in the post" too.

Then there is some drivel about a pro-EU Envoy leaving post early - what a surprise that is.
Not.
Since this same envoy suggested a ten year withrawal from the EU.

Oh and banks whingeing.
Who'd a thunk it eh?
I mean, banks whinge?
Really?
Try reading this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/24/four-reasons-why-banks-wont-leave-the-city-of-london-after-brexi/

Now is there any serious chance that we can return to sensible debate around Scottish independence or rather, the decline in numbers of Scots who want independence?

SUPPORT for independence has dipped below the 45 per cent seen in the 2014 referendum, despite SNP hopes that an outcry over Brexit would boost the case for leaving the UK.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14936903.Blow_for_SNP_as_support_for_independence_falls_below_referendum_level/

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Something against Panelbase ?

It was the only time the question was asked during the entire campaign. The prospect of a Conservative Govt certainly swung a few % points Yes's way didn't it.

Why not quote a poll from the 70's or 80's that better shows the discontent with conservative government? Why are they not equally as valid as one that is 5 years old which appears to take precedence over polls less than a year old showing your movement failing spectacularly.