The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

antrobus

New opinion poll from BMG published in the Herald shows that;

support for an independent Scotland running at 45.5 per cent when ‘don’t knows’ are removed - almost identical to the 2014 referendum result - with 54.5 per cent opposed.

whilst;

more than 6 in 10 Scots, 61.5 per cent to 38.5 per cent, said that they were against a new vote in 2017

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14997280.Majority_of_Scots_oppose_second_independence_vote_in_2017__poll_shows/

So no change there then.

In other news

A motion passed by 13 of Orkney Islands Council's 21 members has demanded the chief executive compile a report considering "whether the people of Orkney could exercise self-determination if faced with further national or international constitutional changes, or indeed to decide if more autonomy might be beneficial for the wellbeing of Orkney.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/02/orkney-explore-independence-scotland-uk-following-brexit/

Oops, there goes the oil.

P.S. The Orkenys would be Norse, of couse.

mollycat

antrobus wrote: »

New opinion poll from BMG published in the Herald shows that;

support for an independent Scotland running at 45.5 per cent when ‘don’t knows’ are removed - almost identical to the 2014 referendum result - with 54.5 per cent opposed.

whilst;

more than 6 in 10 Scots, 61.5 per cent to 38.5 per cent, said that they were against a new vote in 2017

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14997280.Majority_of_Scots_oppose_second_independence_vote_in_2017__poll_shows/

So no change there then.

In other news

A motion passed by 13 of Orkney Islands Council's 21 members has demanded the chief executive compile a report considering "whether the people of Orkney could exercise self-determination if faced with further national or international constitutional changes, or indeed to decide if more autonomy might be beneficial for the wellbeing of Orkney.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/02/orkney-explore-independence-scotland-uk-following-brexit/

Oops, there goes the oil.

P.S. The Orkenys would be Norse, of couse.

With regard to the bit i've put in bold...

That's my experience when speaking with others; people just want to get on.

Desire for independence dwindling almost on a daily basis

Happy New Year to all that support truth and democracy!!

A_Pict_In_A_Past_Life

Aye here too, people are looking to get on with their lives.

Also, more & more I'm hearing how sick of politicians folks are and especially of the SNP.
Despite some of the comments in this thread, this past year has NOT been good for the SNP and certainly not for Scottish independence.

Which means it has been getting better for Scotland.
Yay.

Happy New Year everyone, be you nat, indy or undecided.
Or even other than Scottish.
Though in that case you may have my sympathy too. (Teasing folks, teasing.)

elantan

I don't think many do want another indy ref just now, I know I don't, I'm all ref'd out for a bit

But that doesn't mean they won't vote if one happens ....

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

I don't think many do want another indy ref just now, I know I don't, I'm all ref'd out for a bit

But that doesn't mean they won't vote if one happens ....

Hahaha :rotfl:

Next you'll be telling us how everyone down the local haunts is staunchly pro indy and how that's indicative of the whole of Scotland.

Enterprise_1701C

elantan wrote: »

I don't think many do want another indy ref just now, I know I don't, I'm all ref'd out for a bit

But that doesn't mean they won't vote if one happens ....

If you care about something you get out and vote. That is why there was a 72 % turnout for the EU referendum overall in the UK (67.2% in Scotland, 62.7% in Northern Ireland, 75.7% in the East, 74.2% East Midlands, 69.7% in London, 69.3% in the North East, 70% in North West,76.8% in the South East, 76.7% in the South West, 71.7% in Wales, 72% in West Midlands and 70.7% in Yorkshire and The Humber.

Isn't it funny how the two that were shouting loudest after the EU referendum were the ones with the lowest turnout?

And then you get the independence referendum where 84.6% of scots registered turned out. And voted NO.

This proves if Scotland cares enough about something they get out and vote. There is a massive discrepancy between the independence vote and the EU vote. Sturgeon is trying desperately to link the vote to leave the EU to independance, but if Scotland cared as much as she seems to then surely the turnout for the EU referendum would have been as high as the independance referendum.

Shakethedisease

antrobus wrote: »

New opinion poll from BMG published in the Herald shows that;

support for an independent Scotland running at 45.5 per cent when ‘don’t knows’ are removed - almost identical to the 2014 referendum result - with 54.5 per cent opposed.

whilst;

more than 6 in 10 Scots, 61.5 per cent to 38.5 per cent, said that they were against a new vote in 2017

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14997280.Majority_of_Scots_oppose_second_independence_vote_in_2017__poll_shows/

So no change there then.

In other news

A motion passed by 13 of Orkney Islands Council's 21 members has demanded the chief executive compile a report considering "whether the people of Orkney could exercise self-determination if faced with further national or international constitutional changes, or indeed to decide if more autonomy might be beneficial for the wellbeing of Orkney.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/02/orkney-explore-independence-scotland-uk-following-brexit/

Oops, there goes the oil.

P.S. The Orkenys would be Norse, of couse.

The fieldwork for that poll is weeks out of date. And very strangely, apart from the headline numbers very little detail released. No tables for the poll released as yet either ( showing Don't Knows etc ) and the last time round the company didn't even ask the independence question properly.

Will be watching with interest to see if the tables are out soon. But elantan is right, it's too soon for another referendum. We need a year or so into Brexit first so Scots are under no doubt what's in store staying in the UK. Fantastic that after two years support for independence hasn't been dented at all though according to even this dodgy poll, which has obviously been held back to be released on the same day as Babyboxes are grabbing headlines in a postive way for the SNP.

Orkney and Shetland.. sigh.. and back to 2011 we all go. This one is trotted out regularly. If there is ever a majority that want it, and vote for it I can't see the problem. But it's a way off yet and at the moment nothing more than a few councillors talking shop. Council elections soon !

Oops, there goes the oil.

No, the islands would be most likely deemed enclaves within Scottish waters with 12 miles from their coastlines designated as territory. And in any case, the oil is totally worthless to whoever has it surely ? So who cares.

Shakethedisease

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

If you care about something you get out and vote. That is why there was a 72 % turnout for the EU referendum overall in the UK (67.2% in Scotland, 62.7% in Northern Ireland, 75.7% in the East, 74.2% East Midlands, 69.7% in London, 69.3% in the North East, 70% in North West,76.8% in the South East, 76.7% in the South West, 71.7% in Wales, 72% in West Midlands and 70.7% in Yorkshire and The Humber.

Isn't it funny how the two that were shouting loudest after the EU referendum were the ones with the lowest turnout?

And then you get the independence referendum where 84.6% of scots registered turned out. And voted NO.

This proves if Scotland cares enough about something they get out and vote. There is a massive discrepancy between the independence vote and the EU vote. Sturgeon is trying desperately to link the vote to leave the EU to independance, but if Scotland cared as much as she seems to then surely the turnout for the EU referendum would have been as high as the independance referendum.

You've got it the wrong way round in terms of any future independence referendum. It's low turnout which will hammer the No vote very badly. Just like it killed the Remain vote along with complacency, and just like it did for Scottish Labour last May. SNP vote numbers went up, it was up until then usual Labour voters not bothering to vote that allowed the Conservatives to gain second place.

My opinion a page or so back :-

What's going to do for any second Better Together-esque campaign next time round... is the sheer number out of those half a million older traditional Labour voters still left.. who won't vote at all, severely reducing any No vote from 2014.

In a binary Yes/No vote low turnout especially if primarily from one side is very dangerous if you're a Unionist because every vote counts. As is smug complacency.. so I wouldn't crow too much about polls if I were you, or anyone else hoping for a No vote come to that. :cool:

The Yes side in a hypothetical second ref will be far more motivated than all those previous Labour No voters who cannot face voting for another ten years of Tories in Westminster. <---- Incidentally, this voting 'No is a vote for the Tories' or other versions of this narrative will be far more prominent in a second ref than the EU will. Expect to hear it a LOT.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You've got it the wrong way round in terms of any future independence referendum. It's low turnout which will hammer the No vote very badly. Just like it killed the Remain vote along with complacency, and just like it did for Scottish Labour last May. SNP vote numbers went up, it was up until then usual Labour voters not bothering to vote that allowed the Conservatives to gain second place.

My opinion a page or so back :-In a binary Yes/No vote low turnout especially if primarily from one side is very dangerous if you're a Unionist because every vote counts. As is smug complacency.. so I wouldn't crow too much about polls if I were you, or anyone else hoping for a No vote come to that. :cool:

The Yes side in a hypothetical second ref will be far more motivated than all those previous Labour No voters who cannot face voting for another ten years of Tories in Westminster. <---- Incidentally, this voting 'No is a vote for the Tories' or other versions of this narrative will be far more prominent in a second ref than the EU will. Expect to hear it a LOT.

more positive news for Iscotland : surely the polls must be showing 60-70% in favour by now

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The fieldwork for that poll is weeks out of date. And very strangely, apart from the headline numbers very little detail released. No tables for the poll released as yet either ( showing Don't Knows etc ) and the last time round the company didn't even ask the independence question properly.

Will be watching with interest to see if the tables are out soon. But elantan is right, it's too soon for another referendum. We need a year or so into Brexit first so Scots are under no doubt what's in store staying in the UK. Fantastic that after two years support for independence hasn't been dented at all though according to even this dodgy poll, which has obviously been held back to be released on the same day as Babyboxes are grabbing headlines in a postive way for the SNP.

Orkney and Shetland.. sigh.. and back to 2011 we all go. This one is trotted out regularly. If there is ever a majority that want it, and vote for it I can't see the problem. But it's a way off yet and at the moment nothing more than a few councillors talking shop. Council elections soon !

No, the islands would be most likely deemed enclaves within Scottish waters with 12 miles from their coastlines designated as territory. And in any case, the oil is totally worthless to whoever has it surely ? So who cares.

It's too soon now?

Your opinion changes with the direction of the wind, as long as it revolves around independence.

You once said to me you'd taken the time to understand everything about the independence choice, the more you post the clearer it is that you did not and do not.

Something else apparent in your posts, it's possible to be objective when considering evidence even when you have a bias, you simply are not. If the polls are to be believed then support for independence has fallen since the EU referendum vote.

The downward trajectory is there for all to see, the experts on law, constitutional and EU are mocking Sturgeon and nation states are denying what the SNP government claims to be true. They made a play, effectively rolled the dice, and it is backfiring.

As I said before the die hard support will support whatever she does as those idolising Jesus allegedly turning water into wine.

I submit that the SNP is a political religion. One that is trying to entrench itself by changing the face of Scotland from what we currently understand it to be. The state display of a language other than that of the majority of the populace that espouses Scottish values as perceived by the SNP (see bibles in latin). The lies told to the population by the clergy and the unquestioning acceptance of those lies by the devout. The dedication to a singular cause, draws parallels with the ambition by Christians to enter heaven and avoid sin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_religion

The theory of political religion concerns governmental ideologies whose cultural and political backing is so strong that they are said to attain power equivalent to those of a state religion, with which they often exhibit significant similarities in both theory and practice.[1] In addition to basic forms of politics, like parliament and elections, it also holds an aspect of sacralization related to the institutions contained within the regime and also provides the inner measures traditionally considered to be religious territory, such as ethics, values, symbols, myths, rituals and for example a national liturgical calendar.

You and other indy supporters in the past have been keen to point out where your societal values differ to the rest of us, virtue signalling that your views are more acceptable, welcoming and pious than ours. The hashtag #WeAreScotland was a great example in modern social media of a sacrilization of the ethics and values of a Scottish independence movement.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/alexandra-stein/lambeths-political-cult-lessons

A cult is not defined by worshipping in a particular way, or a particular set of ideas. It is defined by four elements:

* being led by a charismatic and authoritarian leader

* an isolating, steeply hierarchical structure

* a total and exclusive ideology

* the use of techniques of brainwashing - the core of which involves the unpredictable alternation of “love” and terror.

Point 1 is obviously whoever is the party leader, point 2 is by default, 3 is exclusive to the SNP and 4 is on display for all to see on this forum. One particular case for point 4 is the blatant lie that leaving the EU will be worse for the Scottish economy than leaving the UK.

Invoking terror at the thought of leaving the EU, whilst having previously been fine with doing so (2014), looks like propaganda/brainwashing to me.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/01/voters-open-your-eyes-and-escape-these-political-cults/

In Scotland, SNP members try to convince themselves that the devolved government they support is of a radical leftish hue, despite all the evidence to the contrary. When the Supreme Court last week struck down the Scottish Government’s intrusive and ill-thought out “Named Persons Scheme”, it was virtually impossible to find a single one of the SNP’s 120,000 members who would go off-message and publicly share the court’s concerns. The Named Persons Scheme was an SNP policy, supported by the beloved First Minister. It is therefore above criticism.