The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

mollycat

What was that quote again guys?

Something along along the lines of....

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics........

........and the widely discredited and transparent untruths posted by a certain contributor to this thread that are now being called out on a daily basis.

Propaganda thread becomes even more counterproductive!!

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Scroll past if you don't like my posts. Message me if you have a problem. Am getting a little fed up with people blithely ignoring other people swearing openly at other people on this thread and calling them liars.. then getting all prissy devoting entire lengthy posts about my 'posting style' and 'credibility'. One sided childish nonsense on a thread that's actually about Scottish politics and the economy. And at the end of the day, sorry but I'm still going to keep posting anyway.

Regarding the EU and Scotland at the current time there is little factual evidence of anything since Brexit hasn't happened yet. We're all waiting on Theresa. Though one of the negotiators has already come out and said there's no big problem. So not looking completely impossible.

http://stv.tv/news/politics/1358976-no-big-obstacle-to-independent-scotland-joining-eu/

Did I make this up ? Have YOU any evidence that this wouldn't be the case or that he's since changed his position ? If so feel free to provide us all with factual evidence that doesn't come from a pro union newspaper or blog.

Looking forward to something other than 'but Spain' because almost 100% of anything Spain says regarding Scotland in the EU almost always involves the caveat that they won't speak or engage while Scotland is still part of the UK.

The point of what others say about the lack of engagement from yourself is that in this particular example you cite one largely discredited individual with an axe to grind against the UK, whereas others can point to Junker, Tusk, Spain, France, Belgium (funny that) saying exactly the opposite to Verhofstadt.

But your (Verhofstadt's) version is in your eyes the most likely outcome. That Verhofstadt is 100% correct and the rest either didn't say the opposite or are idiots. This is the wall of dogma/propaganda.

No one can debate you if your metaphorical scales of opinion are tilted towards independence no matter the evidence that comes along. I don't think it's that others can't debate, it's more that you won't debate, its just a continual line of "I'm right because, twitter, indy blog, indy journo, etc..." rather than looking purely at the actual facts and statistics available to you instead of the musings of these people with the same agenda as yourself and the SNP, and making a judgement based on the evidence.

It's not reason and logic that drives your posts, that is abundantly clear after you failed to address the 64% trade statistics, the 1,000,000 at risk job statistics and the obvious lies that the SNP tell on the issue/s. They are all provable statistics and comments. But they don't factor into your posts nor it seems your opinion on independence. The topic just changes to something about Nicola, Verohfstadt, A.N.Other.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Scroll past if you don't like my posts. Message me if you have a problem. Am getting a little fed up with people blithely ignoring other people swearing openly at other people on this thread and calling them liars.. then getting all prissy devoting entire lengthy posts about my 'posting style' and 'credibility'. One sided childish nonsense on a thread that's actually about Scottish politics and the economy. And at the end of the day, sorry but I'm still going to keep posting anyway.

Regarding the EU and Scotland at the current time there is little factual evidence of anything since Brexit hasn't happened yet. We're all waiting on Theresa. Though one of the negotiators has already come out and said there's no big problem. So not looking completely impossible.

http://stv.tv/news/politics/1358976-no-big-obstacle-to-independent-scotland-joining-eu/

Did I make this up ? Have YOU any evidence that this wouldn't be the case or that he's since changed his position ? If so feel free to provide us all with factual evidence that doesn't come from a pro union newspaper or blog.

Looking forward to something other than 'but Spain' because almost 100% of anything Spain says regarding Scotland in the EU almost always involves the caveat that they won't speak or engage while Scotland is still part of the UK.

I tell you what, it would be so much easier if you scolled past my posts instead of continually saying things I have not in fact said and ignoring facts.

That link you take as fact does not answer the question posed as well as being from June.
Kinda "heat of the moment" stuff.
Nor is it an official POV, being from one politico only - AND the very first words are of the whole thing being nothing more than a "possibility".

So try this from November 21st:

Frick said Liechtenstein can inform Scotland about the way the EEA and EFTA work, but echoed other ministers who emphasized that Britain must sort out its own post-Brexit ambitions before membership in either could be considered.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/scottish-visit-liechtenstein-eyeing-eu-trade-post-brexit-115423084--finance.html

THAT doesn't sound at all like discussions are taking place, does it?

So back to the question above; we are still awaiting a coherent response, Shakey?

BTW, if you're getting fed up of swearing (?) and people being called liars it may be an idea to - for once - stick to the truth, eh?
We know that is an alien concept for the SNP.
You cannot prove otherwise, it seems.

Moto2

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Scroll past if you don't like my posts. Message me if you have a problem. Am getting a little fed up with people blithely ignoring other people swearing openly at other people on this thread and calling them liars.. then getting all prissy devoting entire lengthy posts about my 'posting style' and 'credibility'. One sided childish nonsense on a thread that's actually about Scottish politics and the economy. And at the end of the day, sorry but I'm still going to keep posting anyway.

Regarding the EU and Scotland at the current time there is little factual evidence of anything since Brexit hasn't happened yet. We're all waiting on Theresa. Though one of the negotiators has already come out and said there's no big problem. So not looking completely impossible.

http://stv.tv/news/politics/1358976-no-big-obstacle-to-independent-scotland-joining-eu/

Did I make this up ? Have YOU any evidence that this wouldn't be the case or that he's since changed his position ? If so feel free to provide us all with factual evidence that doesn't come from a pro union newspaper or blog.

Looking forward to something other than 'but Spain' because almost 100% of anything Spain says regarding Scotland in the EU almost always involves the caveat that they won't speak or engage while Scotland is still part of the UK.

You know, if occasionally, you said "yeah, I didn't mean that" or "sorry, I misquoted you" instead of totally ignoring it and just posting hundreds of words with loads of copying and pasting that have absolutely nothing to do with it as an answer - people may be more likely to engage in a constructive manner.
Sometimes I'm not sure if your posts are serious or just some weird type of free form poetry.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Also here:

Ms Alfreðsd!ttir added:"It is interesting but of course you need to be a sovereign state to apply but maybe as a possibility going forward - you never know.”

Norway’s trade minister Monica Maeland said that Scotland lacked the ‘competence’ to join EFTA, adding: “I think this is an internal matter for the UK, so I think Scotland should talk to the government in the UK about these matters.”

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/efta-chief-offers-snp-glimmer-of-hope-over-post-brexit-plans-1-4296037

So there are a few different sources with different EU politicians saying the same thing.
Together with Fox News (Associated Press) and a few others who are not all linked to one site THAT is confirmation.

antrobus

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

This thread is turning into a Shakey-induced farce!...

You are entitled to your opinion. I think this thread has been a "Shakey-induced farce" since about page one, when the OP announced that Scotland was "a complete basket case".

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

...Despite the requests from myself and others, the sheer refusal to acknowledge the lack of factual evidence is ......... laughable now, sadly......

You've noticed that too, have you?

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

...You can tell when a post has "hit the spot" when Shakey replies with lines such as "Not name calling and inane chat", " you're just seeing stuff in posts that aren't actually there and not reading them through properly. ", and "Nothing I've said on this forum is misleading."...

He also apparently finds it 'boring' if you keep pointing that out. Oh yes, and anything misleading or untrue can simply be excused as 'satire'.:)

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

...These remove whatever small degree of credibility Shakey and the remaining pro-SNP supporters in this thread had - if indeed there was any to begin with....

I don't think he understands what is meant by the word 'debate'.

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

..The following has now been asked by a few posters including myself, yet you have not replied other than to dodge and distract from the issue.
(Something which YOU accuse others of in this thread, BTW.)
So now just for you Shakey and to keep it simple:

Evidence of EU discussions with Scotland please?
Evidence of the EU formally discussing with Scotland any transitional arrangements as a result of Brexit.
Recent evidence, since the referendum at least.

Again and to make it perfectly clear since it appears that you have trouble with this concept, that is EVIDENCE.
EVIDENCE, not heresay from one pro-EU post.
EVIDENCE, not Tweet or Facebook or blog or vlog.
EVIDENCE from EU members.

Evidence.
NOT more "waffle and bluster".

Evidence.
NOT further going over the same ground with the same responses.

Do you think you could do that?

I think you'll get more waffle and bluster.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

The point of what others say about the lack of engagement from yourself is that in this particular example you cite one largely discredited individual with an axe to grind against the UK, whereas others can point to Junker, Tusk, Spain, France, Belgium (funny that) saying exactly the opposite to Verhofstadt.

But your (Verhofstadt's) version is in your eyes the most likely outcome. That Verhofstadt is 100% correct and the rest either didn't say the opposite or are idiots. This is the wall of dogma/propaganda.

I didn't say that. You wanted evidence and I gave it to you. I made no comment on what's 'in my eyes' most likely. If you don't agree with Verhofstadt then that's fine. But don't start on me because HE said it but there's you evidence so far. Take it or leave it.

No one can debate you if your metaphorical scales of opinion are tilted towards independence no matter the evidence that comes along. I don't think it's that others can't debate, it's more that you won't debate, its just a continual line of "I'm right because, twitter, indy blog, indy journo, etc..." rather than looking purely at the actual facts and statistics available to you instead of the musings of these people with the same agenda as yourself and the SNP, and making a judgement based on the evidence.

You don't have any facts about Scotland, Brexit or the EU and what's going to happen. No one does until it happens. Face it, you're just the same as me. Speculating with the occasional link thrown in.

It's not reason and logic that drives your posts, that is abundantly clear after you failed to address the 64% trade statistics, the 1,000,000 at risk job statistics and the obvious lies that the SNP tell on the issue/s. They are all provable statistics and comments. But they don't factor into your posts nor it seems your opinion on independence. The topic just changes to something about Nicola, Verohfstadt, A.N.Other.

Prove them then, that 64% ? Because David Leask (Chief Reporter at the Herald and Kenny Farquarson ( The Times ) can't and they're currently in Leask's own words being flagged as 'iffy'.

David Leask ‏@LeaskyHT Nov 25 @AlastairMacIver I meant to say we got a wee row from economists for using those figs. So we're flagging them as iffy. @KennyFarq

And both of them write for Unionist newspapers who are absolutely gagging to use that 64% figure but can't because they're iffy. In other words they do not know if it's a true figure.



I use tweets because there are quicker in news than the daily newspapers are. It's also why most journo's and politicians themselves use it. To keep up with what's going on. You should try it sometime, you might be more up to date.

Shakethedisease

Moto2 wrote: »

You know, if occasionally, you said "yeah, I didn't mean that" or "sorry, I misquoted you" instead of totally ignoring it and just posting hundreds of words with loads of copying and pasting that have absolutely nothing to do with it as an answer - people may be more likely to engage in a constructive manner.
Sometimes I'm not sure if your posts are serious or just some weird type of free form poetry.

Message me if you want to discuss my posting style. I've been posting here for the last 6 years or so the mods have no complaints. If you really do have a problem with them, report them.

And back to Scotland eh ? You seem a little obsessed with me and how I post to be honest and it's a little disconcerting. I answer everything thrown at me. Which is quite a lot at times. That you do not like the answers nor the links, tweets, articles or any other method I by which back up those answers is no concern of mine... and you're free to engage, scroll past, put me on ignore or indeed avoid the thread altogether as you wish. I stick strictly to Scotland only matters and always have. It's others that want to delve into sideways carping about posts and posters they don't like.

Shakethedisease

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

I tell you what, it would be so much easier if you scolled past my posts instead of continually saying things I have not in fact said and ignoring facts.

That link you take as fact does not answer the question posed as well as being from June.
Kinda "heat of the moment" stuff.
Nor is it an official POV, being from one politico only - AND the very first words are of the whole thing being nothing more than a "possibility".

So try this from November 21st:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/scottish-visit-liechtenstein-eyeing-eu-trade-post-brexit-115423084--finance.html

THAT doesn't sound at all like discussions are taking place, does it?

So back to the question above; we are still awaiting a coherent response, Shakey?

BTW, if you're getting fed up of swearing (?) and people being called liars it may be an idea to - for once - stick to the truth, eh?
We know that is an alien concept for the SNP.
You cannot prove otherwise, it seems.

It doesn't sound like discussions are taking place. Is that all the evidence and proof you have ? Wow.

Moto2

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Message me if you want to discuss my posting style. I've been posting here for the last 6 years or so the mods have no complaints. If you really do have a problem with them, report them.

And back to Scotland eh ? You seem a little obsessed with me and how I post to be honest and it's a little disconcerting. I answer everything thrown at me. Which is quite a lot at times. That you do not like the answers nor the links, tweets, articles or any other method I by which back up those answers is no concern of mine... and you're free to engage, scroll past, put me on ignore or indeed avoid the thread altogether as you wish. I stick strictly to Scotland only matters and always have. It's others that want to delve into sideways carping about posts and posters they don't like.

Who said I didn't 'like' your posts? and if I didn't, what possible reason would I have to report them?
They're not abusive or anything, just a bit random, verbose and evasive at times.
Don't flatter yourself about anyone obsessing about you, and certainly not me - I still wouldn't mind a simple answer to a simple question I asked about one of your recent posts though.