The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

The_Last_Username

Shakethedisease wrote: »

If you want simple answers engage with someone else.

Aw shucks, we hadn't noticed that about you!
Though I must say this; it is the single most-accurate and factual statement you have made in the whole thread.
By far.
Though you need not have included the word "simple".

Which leads to this very accurate summary:

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

See now you're just trolling aren't you?

I really had to lol @ "You don't get to tell random strangers on the internet what to do." - because that is pretty much all you ever do!
Oh and if you don't like the derogatory tone of this post, try not being derogatory to mine and to other posters too.

And don't bother to ask about debate.
Because you ignore any attempt at it, as agreed by many others here in the last few pages alone.

Shakethedisease

antrobus wrote: »

The Scottish Goverment says it can. It says that 64% of Scottish exports go to the Rest of UK. It doesn't really matter if that figure isn't 'accurate', it still means that the UK is overwhelmingly Scotland's biggest export market. What else is there to say on that subject.

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/Exports/ESSPublication

As already pointed out, you seemed to failed to have noticed that 57% is more than 43%. Thus proving the exact opposite of what you wanted to prove.

Of course I noticed it lol ! What was it I was trying to prove, or you think I was trying to prove ? It wasn't even that bit of the article I quoted, it was the trade part to Tricky.

They may not be accurate. Especially in the services sector. There are lots of people from all sides MP's, journo's and economists alike now delving in deeper to see exactly what's going on. Happy to wait and see what they find but it seems there is a lot of confusion going on, as Kenny Farquarson is finding out for himself.

And in any case, it doesn't look like also from that poll that it's going to matter much anyway in terms of what Scots view as which market matters the most to them.

antrobus

beecher2 wrote: »

this whole thread is full of speculation - I thought that went without saying. We don't know what sort of Brexit we'll have, ....

The thread predates Brexit. Brexit is only relevant because that referendum result has led to the hope that it can be used to reopen the independence debate.

beecher2 wrote: »

...whether it will lead to an increase in a desire for independence,...

So far the polls say no.

beecher2 wrote: »

...when a second referendum will be called, and what sort of campaign it might be..

You should have said 'if'. The YouGov poll in September showed that only 37% of Scots supported the call.

beecher2 wrote: »

...You might think that most people in Scotland would prefer to stay in the UK, .

I don't 'think' anything of the kind. On the other hand I know that most of them said that is what they wanted about two years ago.

beecher2 wrote: »

...than in the EU but the only polling done has shown that people are really very torn between the two, as Shakethedisease has shown. .

If by being "torn between the two" you mean the referendum result was 55%-45% and subsequent polling has shown a similar result, then yes, I don't think anybody doubts that. Those would be facts.

beecher2 wrote: »

...Not just 'facts' come into play, but emotion too....

It's perfectly clear that the desire for an independent Scotland is (for some people at least) is driven by emotion, but that doesn't stop facts being facts.

beecher2 wrote: »

...Think everyone should calm down a wee bit, don't know why it has become so heated.

Because Shakethedisease can't cope with facts, and so avoids them, and some people appear to find that a tad exasperating.

Shakethedisease

beecher2 wrote: »

this whole thread is full of speculation - I thought that went without saying. We don't know what sort of Brexit we'll have, whether it will lead to an increase in a desire for independence, when a second referendum will be called, and what sort of campaign it might be.

You might think that most people in Scotland would prefer to stay in the UK, than in the EU but the only polling done has shown that people are really very torn between the two, as Shakethedisease has shown. Not just 'facts' come into play, but emotion too.

Think everyone should calm down a wee bit, don't know why it has become so heated.

It happens on pretty much all forums all the time ( I run and Admin a very large one ). The threads start getting personal and personalised concentrating on one or a few people rather than focusing on the topic at hand. Is a total bore fest of a thread killer too. It's happened a lot to me here over the years but I recognise it for what it is.

See the Last Username's post above as an absolutely classic and average example of it. Absolutely nothing whatsoever about the topic, just a nothing post about nothing very much. ( My own mods would be moving them/deleting them off the thread asap as off topic but not all forums are the same ).

---

I agree with you, there's a lot of very torn people in Scotland at the moment. Imo Scottish Labour is the really the thing to watch for now. McCluskey's intervention today and the fall out.

While the big guns will be out for Sturgeon's plans in a few weeks and focusing on that, it's Scottish Labour coming over to Home Rule and ditching the union at all costs narrative which will be the real story in the coming months regarding independence support. Especially if it all happens just around the same time May triggers Article 50.

Shakethedisease

antrobus wrote: »

Because Shakethedisease can't cope with facts, and so avoids them, and some people appear to find that a tad exasperating.

I can cope well enough with facts. But we're in the main speculating here as to current and near future events. No one here has any more in the way of facts than anyone else does. However :-

Sturgeon is legislating for a second referendum in the event of a Hard Brexit - fact.

The Greens will support her - fact.

It will pass in Holyrood if it's put forward -fact.

Scottish Labour are on the verge of internal war and ditching their previous position on the union/independence - fact

May doesn't have a scooby do what to do next - debatable.

55/45% was over two years ago and circumstances have changed -fact

Will it be enough to tip enough over to independence - debatable.

Will Scotland remain in the EU - debatable.

Moto2

Just in case anyone needs to brush up on the difference between facts and opinions

http://www.bbc.co.uk/skillswise/factsheet/en06opin-l1-f-what-is-fact-and-opinion

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

May doesn't have a scooby do what to do next - debatable.

Does Sturgeon? - highly debatable.

As for May. Actual events will dictate the course of action. Not pie in the sky dreams.

Shakethedisease

Moto2 wrote: »

Just in case anyone needs to brush up on the difference between facts and opinions

http://www.bbc.co.uk/skillswise/factsheet/en06opin-l1-f-what-is-fact-and-opinion

Is this anything to do with the topic ? Or just another yawn inducing prod at a fellow poster on the thread ?

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Does Sturgeon? - highly debatable.

Sure it's debatable. But in my opinion hard brexit - indy ref 2. From everything she's done and said so far.

As for May. Actual events will dictate the course of action. Not pie in the sky dreams.

The actual event happened a full 6 months ago.

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

...
Sturgeon is legislating for a second referendum in the event of a Hard Brexit - fact.
...

... and I maintain you might not even know just how hard or soft this Brexit is until deadlines force both parties into resolving all the sticky issues towards the end of A50.

Suppose the discussions on single market access (to choose a topic) hinge on other things like freedom of movement, then all that will happen is to make the discussions even more entangled and complicated.

Could freedom of movement be refined or even redefined?

If Sturgeon argues that the Brexit is looking 'hard' and UK gov put the blame at EU intransigence, what then?

I could even see May avoiding any reference to hard or soft, claiming it to be a facile outlook to complex negotiations.