The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

mrginge

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Just to be clear - I am not and will never be an "SNP supporter" - in that I'd rather chew my own arm off than use it to vote for the SNP.

...and yet you seem happy to give up on your centre right principles to commit to an eternity of left wing government. How strange.

We already know that you believe more Europe is the long term solution here so I guess that you will be actively campaigning on a ticket of Scotland going independent from the UK before giving it all up to join an EU superstate.

The cynic in me thinks that you actually couldn't give a stuff about Scottish independence because you know it would be such an economic shambles. But the only way out of the total shafting that the scottish people would get would be through some half-cocked deal with the EU. So the great and powerful nation of Scotland is sold right down the river and ends up in a slightly more knackered and leaking boat than all the other EU minnows.

Admit it mctavish, you absolutely hate the idea of Scotland becoming independent.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

mrginge wrote: »

I guess that you will be actively campaigning on a ticket of Scotland going independent from the UK before giving it all up to join an EU superstate.

I'll be campaigning for Scotland to remain a full member of the EU.

The cynic in me thinks that you actually couldn't give a stuff about Scottish independence because you know it would be such an economic shambles. .

Of course it will be an economic shambles - but no more of an economic shambles than the UK will face in the event of a hard Brexit - so if that's the path you choose then I strongly suspect we'll choose a different one....

mrginge

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

I'll be campaigning for Scotland to remain a full member of the EU.

And what will you be offering to the EU for this?
Will you be negotiating terms with the EU before or afterwards?
All sounds a little bit like the same kind of 'lies' that the leave campaign were criticised for.

Of course it will be an economic shambles - but no more of an economic shambles than the UK will face in the event of a hard Brexit - so if that's the path you choose then I strongly suspect we'll choose a different one....

So there we have it. Hamish doesn't give a stuff about either the Uk or Scotland.

kabayiri

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

...
I believe in fighting fire with fire.

If that's the game Westminster want to play I've got no issues with Scotgov playing the same game right back...

I'm all for that too.

I wish there was an English parliament to stick up for the needs of England.

We outnumber the people oop North many times over. There would only be one winner if things turn sour.

kabayiri

mrginge wrote: »

...

So there we have it. Hamish doesn't give a stuff about either the Uk or Scotland.

To be fair, you do get a bit of clarity with Hamish.

He's clear on currency : Euro.
He's clear on when indy ref 2 should be.
He prefers the EU to Westminster should push come to shove.

When you ask Shakey it's all "this/that is up for negotiation". It's taken a faux independence supporter to bring some frankness! :rotfl:

.string.

All right Shakey since we're such good friends and just to humour you; here is the sequence of posts between us on this.
===============================================

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Yes I have said on a number of occasions. You haven't given any credible reason or grounds so far on why the EU wouldn't want to have any formal discussion with Scotland. Apart from 'reasons'.
Could you elaborate maybe ?

You have been given reasons many times:

Just one is enough:

Scotland is part of the UK until the UK agrees it is not or agrees that Scotland will become separated. The EU will not meddle in another country's internal affairs and for that reason will not discuss anything of substance with the SNP until that time.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

But afterindependence ?

Pigs will fly.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You make me titter.

But you didn't answer the question.

I gave an appropriate response to a flippant deflection from the issue under discussion at the time

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Yes it certainly made me laugh. But you didn't answer the question. If Scotland voted to leave the UK.. and the rUK is leaving the EU. Why wouldn't the EU want to hold talks with Scotland ?

Any advance on flippancy and any chance of a coherent answer from you ? Even if it's hypothetical. I'm expected to detail macro/micro economic policy and currency options A,B,C and D for an independent Scotland for the short and medium term on a referendum that hasn't been called yet, or even won just about daily here from some posters.

Hypothetically if Scotland votes to leave the UK, and Article 50 has been invoked. Scotland no longer part of talks ( independence ). Would the EU want to talk to Scotland in that case ? How could Scotland 'leave' the EU if it's no longer part of Article 50 ?

Any insight from you would be good. Hypothetically speaking.

Now I’ll repeat my first post which is actually self-standing.

Scotland is part of the UK until the UK agrees it is not or agrees that Scotland will become separated. The EU will not meddle in another country's internal affairs and for that reason will not discuss anything of substance with the SNP until that time.

But just to make it even clearer:

For Scotland to separate from the UK so that others will talk to the SNP, the SNP will have to go through the constitutional loops; if it does not the SNP can forget about negotiating paradise with anybody. For that, as has been mentioned before, also in papers you have referenced, UK acquiescence is required. It is doubtful, to say the least, that will be forthcoming as the result of a illegitimate faux "referendum" tied to a politically motivated schedule.

mrginge

kabayiri wrote: »

To be fair, you do get a bit of clarity with Hamish.

He's clear on currency : Euro.
He's clear on when indy ref 2 should be.
He prefers the EU to Westminster should push come to shove.

When you ask Shakey it's all "this/that is up for negotiation". It's taken a faux independence supporter to bring some frankness! :rotfl:

I don't disagree with his logic that the EU actually needs to integrate further. People should understand though that Hamish cheering for independence is really about Hamish wanting to keep lining his own pockets and nothing else.

.string.

kabayiri wrote: »

I'm all for that too.

I wish there was an English parliament to stick up for the needs of England.

We outnumber the people oop North many times over. There would only be one winner if things turn sour.

The SNP have been playing dirty all along. The bad faith demonstrated in their decrying the Smith agreement the day after they signed it being the standout example. Reneging on the results of the Scottish Referendum is another. They are now playing dirty by taking actions which are potentially damaging to the UK, a line crossed which cannot be ignored. There will have to be a time when May stops the nicely nicely approach. in order to protect both the loyal Scots and the rest of us from this SNP obsession. There are many things she could do, rolling over to the SNP not being one of them. But I'd not like to speculate on what they are, if it comes to that, I'd rather they were a surprise to the SNP fanatics.

In the meantime we await with bated breath, what demands Sturgeon want to make.

kabayiri

mrginge wrote: »

I don't disagree with his logic that the EU actually needs to integrate further. People should understand though that Hamish cheering for independence is really about Hamish wanting to keep lining his own pockets and nothing else.

I can understand Hamish defending his own interests.

It's only now that people like Hamish talk openly about the EU having to go for closer integration. During the EU ref, the Remain vote was being painted as a vote for the current status quo....which was clearly nonsense.

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

I'm all for that too.

I wish there was an English parliament to stick up for the needs of England.

We outnumber the people oop North many times over. There would only be one winner if things turn sour.

.string. wrote: »

There are many things she could do, rolling over to the SNP not being one of them. But I'd not like to speculate on what they are, if it comes to that, I'd rather they were a surprise to the SNP fanatics.

I wish you (two) would speculate what you mean ? It all sounds a little menacing to be honest. We well know how big England's population is compared to Scotland's. Just how far would May go to keep Scotland currently or forever in the union do you think ? Or would Scotland have to leave the EU alongside England/Wales etc.. and only then to be allowed a referendum ?

I don't get what you're both hinting at above ?