The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Grammatically if I was stating the £2.2bn was per year I would/should have written:



But that's not the case so I didn't.

And you may have "been through the wars" together on other threads, it doesn't change the reality that he/she doesn't read things and just plays the man not the ball.

Well If I can read it as you meaning 2.2bn per year, then others might have too. Clarification is always good.

Rather not get into spats about individual posters on threads. You shouldn't really either. Just concentrate on the issues rather than other posters. Ignore everything else or report it if you feel it's personally abusive.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Well If I can read it as you meaning 2.2bn per year, then others might have too. Clarification is always good.

Rather not get into spats about individual posters on threads. You shouldn't really either. Just concentrate on the issues rather than other posters. Ignore everything else or report it if you feel it's personally abusive.

I've invited him/her many times to clarify and back up what he/she says. It never happens.

Claiming I cannot say anything about it because I don't live there, then they look like an absolute fool for not reading that the sources were the Scottish government, the UK government and someone who lives in Scotland. It had nothing to do with me, but I was the target.

TrickyTree83

I didn't want this to get lost in the flurry of posts.

Based on the evidence would you say that the meme, which was retweeted by SNP MP's, is wrong or is it correct? If you don't want to answer a blanket statement like this, there's some questions broken down for you below:

Does Scotland have borrowing powers? Yes/No

Does Scotland have the [STRIKE]ability[/STRIKE] assets to sell [STRIKE]it's assets[/STRIKE], ad infinitum, to cover the yearly deficit? Yes/No

Does Scotland contribute to English projects as the meme claims? Yes/No

Does Scotland benefit from Barnett consequentials on the HS2 project? Yes/No

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I've invited him/her many times to clarify and back up what he/she says. It never happens.

Claiming I cannot say anything about it because I don't live there, then they look like an absolute fool for not reading that the sources were the Scottish government, the UK government and someone who lives in Scotland. It had nothing to do with me, but I was the target.

There's a problem when people get all their information from reading mainly biased blogs and media reports like most non-Scottish living posters on this board do. I've said already that the people who know best what it's actually like to live under an SNP government in Holyrood are those who actually do.

A fair lot of the time the experiences simply do not match what's written. I gave Salmond as an example. A politician who apparently was just about universally hated going by what was in print and on 99% of media reports. Yet topped popularity polls and satisfaction ratings in Scotland for years. Plainly there, Scots didn't see Salmond the way the rest of the UK did. Plenty of Scottish people really did hate him that cannot be denied. But in reality far more Scots thought he did a great job.

The NHS and other public services are another example of this. We constantly hear in print and on tv about various public sector crisis's and how the SNP should get on with the day job. Yet in day to day life we don't simply do not recognise this to be the case.

As an example the SNP is under fire once again today for missing NHS targets.

A&E patients seen on time:
Scotland: 94% [-1% below target]
England: 87% [-8%]
Wales: 76% [-19%]
NI: 75% [-20%]

Newspapers and tv/radio this morning are all running with the OMG NHS is in crisis line. Therefore this is what people like you will read about if you search online for it. But from the figures ( taken as example ) of A and E waiting times. You can see where context has been completely missed, the wrong picture emerges and this eventually becomes the 'accepted' fact. 'SNP are ruining the NHS'.

A lot of Scots who live and visit the local NHS or hospitals simply don't see these figures and narratives as matching their own day to day experiences. As you can see from this just before the election.



In short. A lot of Scots don't trust what the media tell them anymore and with good reason. There's no balance. And if all you ever read is skewed media content with no context applied and biased blogs. Then it's going to form a one sided and misinformed opinion of the current state of play in Scottish politics. <

---

One many Scots who live here don't agree with obviously, since as an electorate they trust the SNP and vote for them more than any other party.

sss555s

kabayiri wrote: »

Yes, absolutely.

It works both ways.

The current political set up does not work, because Scotland; Wales; NI; they all have a body fighting for their cause; and yet England has nothing.

This creates the suspicion that Westminster is really a proxy for England.

I'd rather smaller regions each competing for a share of the spending pot by putting forward better plans for encouraging growth and prosperity.

I think that would work better if we had our own purse rather than paying into Westminster to get some (begrudged) pocket money back in return.

Take renewable s for example. Westminster has stopped incentives for wind power. The UK is one of the best countries for wind power and Scotland has a typical 3 times the power generated than England for the same size of turbine.

In the UK, the ruling Conservative government is opposed to further onshore wind turbines, and has cancelled subsidies for new onshore wind turbines from April 2016.[189] The former prime minister David Cameron has stated that “We will halt the spread of onshore wind farms",[190] and had previously claimed that "People are fed up with onshore wind" though polls of public opinion showed the converse.[191] The wind power industry has claimed that the policy will increase electricity prices for consumers as onshore wind is one of the cheapest power technologies,[190] although the government disputes this,[189] and it is estimated that 2,500 turbines will not now be built.[189] Questions have been raised about whether the country will now meet its renewable obligations, as Committee on Climate Change has stated that 25GW of onshore wind may be needed by 2030.[

An independent Scotland could easily be self sufficient through renewable energy, and have some for export. Westminster is instead spending billions for a new nuclear plant which we will all be paying for. No doubt that will put our debt up higher.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

There's a problem when people get all their information from reading mainly biased blogs and media reports like most non-Scottish living posters on this board do. I've said already that the people who know best what it's actually like to live under an SNP government in Holyrood are those who actually do.

A fair lot of the time the experiences simply do not match what's written. I gave Salmond as an example. A politician who apparently was just about universally hated going by what was in print and on 99% of media reports. Yet topped popularity polls and satisfaction ratings in Scotland for years. Plainly there, Scots didn't see Salmond the way the rest of the UK did. Plenty of Scottish people really did hate him that cannot be denied. But in reality far more Scots thought he did a great job.

The NHS and other public services are another example of this. We constantly hear in print and on tv about various public sector crisis's and how the SNP should get on with the day job. Yet in day to day life we don't simply do not recognise this to be the case.

As an example the SNP is under fire once again today for missing NHS targets.

A&E patients seen on time:
Scotland: 94% [-1% below target]
England: 87% [-8%]
Wales: 76% [-19%]
NI: 75% [-20%]

Newspapers and tv/radio this morning are all running with the OMG NHS is in crisis line. Therefore this is what people like you will read about if you search online for it. But from the figures ( taken as example ) of A and E waiting times. You can see where context has been completely missed, the wrong picture emerges and this eventually becomes the 'accepted' fact. 'SNP are ruining the NHS'.

A lot of Scots who live and visit the local NHS or hospitals simply don't see these figures and narratives as matching their own day to day experiences. As you can see from this just before the election.



In short. A lot of Scots don't trust what the media tell them anymore and with good reason. There's no balance. And if all you ever read is skewed media content with no context applied and biased blogs. Then it's going to form a one sided and misinformed opinion of the current state of play in Scottish politics. <

---

One many Scots who live here don't agree with obviously, since as an electorate they trust the SNP and vote for them more than any other party.

Whilst what you say might be true.

It doesn't change the figures does it. They're not bias.

The Scottish government is behind them, the SNP endorses them, even used them as a basis for their infamous White Paper.

The sources were the Scottish government and the UK government. SNP MP's and their supporters promote and distribute dishonest and misleading narratives which can be proved conclusively wrong.

The dishonesty you so despise in the Brexit campaign is alive and well in the independence campaign. You're just blind to it because you support it.

Lets try again:

Based on the evidence would you say that the meme, which was retweeted by SNP MP's, is wrong or is it correct? If you don't want to answer a blanket statement like this, there's some questions broken down for you below:

Does Scotland have borrowing powers? Yes/No

Does Scotland have the ability assets to sell it's assets, ad infinitum, to cover the yearly deficit? Yes/No

Does Scotland contribute to English projects as the meme claims? Yes/No

Does Scotland benefit from Barnett consequentials on the HS2 project? Yes/No

TrickyTree83

sss555s wrote: »

I think that would work better if we had our own purse rather than paying into Westminster to get some (begrudged) pocket money back in return.

Take renewable s for example. Westminster has stopped incentives for wind power. The UK is one of the best countries for wind power and Scotland has a typical 3 times the power generated than England for the same size of turbine.



An independent Scotland could easily be self sufficient through renewable energy, and have some for export. Westminster is instead spending billions for a new nuclear plant which we will all be paying for. No doubt that will put our debt up higher.

Renewable or wind in particular?

Since you're complaining about wind I wanted to clarify, need to make sure there's no way to squirm out of any response given.

sss555s

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Whilst what you say might be true.

It doesn't change the figures does it. They're not bias.

The Scottish government is behind them, the SNP endorses them, even used them as a basis for their infamous White Paper.

The sources were the Scottish government and the UK government. SNP MP's and their supporters promote and distribute dishonest and misleading narratives which can be proved conclusively.

The dishonesty you so despite in the Brexit campaign is alive and well in the independence campaign. You're just blind to it because you support it.

Yeah Tricky, it's true.

Accounting is never straight forward, but, the whole point is there are a number of things Scotland would do differently which would benefit us as a small nation.

sss555s

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Renewable or wind in particular?

Since you're complaining about wind I wanted to clarify, need to make sure there's no way to squirm out of any response given.

Wind in particular.

Is this just a points scoring thread for you?

TrickyTree83

sss555s wrote: »

Yeah Tricky, it's true.

Accounting is never straight forward, but, the whole point is there are a number of things Scotland would do differently which would benefit us as a small nation.

That's ok is it? It's ok to spread such lies?

http://www.parliament.uk/biographies/commons/angus-brendan-macneil/1546

https://twitter.com/AngusMacNeilSNP?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

October 16th in case you wanted to see it in the flesh.