The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Oh right...

That must be why the latest polls are showing a majority for staying in the EU....

Maybe we should have a 'Regrexit' referendum.

Now that the myth has been debunked and all.....;)

Show me a recent poll that indicates Scotland wants independence (+50%). Then show me how that majority is trending upwards over time, then we can talk about your conflicted position on Scottish independence Hamish.

Enterprise_1701C

islandannie wrote: »

There are a great many devolved matters which Brexit will affect and change. The devolved leaders absolutely need to be involved and their suggestions and input respected and taken seriously. Otherwise you're saying that it's an English only issue and that everyone else should be ignored even when it affects their devolved remits massively.

Is that what you're saying

How can you in all honesty believe that devolved parliaments should have such power which enables them to overrule the UK government policies?

Pray tell me.

Would the devolved parliaments like it if we went to their parliament and overruled everything they had. Scotland voted to bring in university charges in England whilst they have free uni education, they voted to stop us liberalising sunday opening laws whilst they have very liberal laws. They have been voting on English only bills for far too long. This should not be allowed, they should be forced to implement anything they vote on in the UK parliament within their devolved parliament.

The UK as a WHOLE voted for Brexit. If we allow the devolved parliaments to overrule the UK government policies then we would never leave the EU because sturgeon would either pass all the information she had to the EU negotiators or simply veto it all. She has no consideration for the rest of the UK, the scots are a minority and have been pandered to far too long.

It is about time someone told sturgeon to stop acting like a two year old and actually help the UK rather than sulking because she cant get the information she needs to sabotage the rest of the UK. She might find if she worked WITH us it would be to the advantage of all.

.string.

Clear Waters on Fishing
Scottish Fishermen's Federation leaders hold Brexit meetings

The Scottish Fishermen's Federation (SFF) is meeting the UK environment secretary and fishing minister in London.
Talks with the Scottish government's Brexit minister Michael Russell are due to be held after that in Holyrood.
The SFF campaigned for a Leave vote in June's referendum.
The organisation said control over British waters would bring huge potential benefits to Scottish fishing.

I wonder what lies the SNP will tell the SFF - probably that London intends to annex Scottish fishing waters.

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

...
Yes, to stay in the EU/Single Market by which ever means possible. She has cross party support in Scotland and 62% of the electorate behind her in doing so.
...

62% of the two thirds who could actually be bothered to turn out and vote on such an important UK-wide issue of course.

It doesn't sound like a superior mandate to me. It sounds more like Nicola being unable to persuade her fellow voters to share in her EU passion.

It's like the lottery. You have to be "in it, to win it".

elantan

.string. wrote: »

Clear Waters on Fishing
Scottish Fishermen's Federation leaders hold Brexit meetings

I wonder what lies the SNP will tell the SFF - probably that London intends to annex Scottish fishing waters.

I imagine it would be something like ... we can't tell u what the UK government plan for the fishing industry as they have not told us ANYTHING apart from Brexit means Brexit, however we suspect your situation may be one of the following ... then I imagine several scenarios will be placed before them and a reiteration that at this time it is an unknown answer they seek... with a reassurance that Scotland government are there to support them and do the best for them

You know the usual kinda thing you would expect from your goverenment at times like this

elantan

kabayiri wrote: »

62% of the two thirds who could actually be bothered to turn out and vote on such an important UK-wide issue of course.

It doesn't sound like a superior mandate to me. It sounds more like Nicola being unable to persuade her fellow voters to share in her EU passion.

It's like the lottery. You have to be "in it, to win it".

You say that like it's not an awful lot ... compare that turnout to other turnouts we've had during our time ... it's no bad ... and quite clearly the people.spoke 62% hasnt to be sneezed at, it's not like it's 52%

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

You say that like it's not an awful lot ... compare that turnout to other turnouts we've had during our time ... it's no bad ... and quite clearly the people.spoke 62% hasnt to be sneezed at, it's not like it's 52%

How many people does that 62% represent?

It's 1,661,191 votes.

How many people does the 52% represent?

It's 17,410,742 votes.

You, the other pro-indy supporters and Nicola and her SNP acolytes are trying to tell the people of the UK that the views of 1.6m Scottish people mean more than the views of 17.4m British citizens.

As a percentage of the overall UK vote, the 1.6m now being used as a weapon against the result is just shy of 5% of the overall electorate involved in the vote. Awful politics when 5% can dictate to 52%.

setmefree2

kabayiri wrote: »

62% of the two thirds who could actually be bothered to turn out and vote on such an important UK-wide issue of course.

It doesn't sound like a superior mandate to me.

I make that 41% - so 41% voted to Remain.

mayonnaise

setmefree2 wrote: »

I make that 41% - so 41% voted to Remain.

That's correct.
And 51.9% of 72.2% is 37.5%

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Scotland didn't vote for anything, neither did Northern Ireland, England, Wales, Gibraltar, etc... they are simply reported as regional votes in the same way West Midlands and East Midlands constitute the larger 'Midlands'. The only result that occurred on the day was the UK result. It will never be a case of "England and Wales can leave, the rest do as we please", because there is no the rest, there is no England and there is no Wales, there is no Scotland or Northern Ireland in the context of a UK vote. Unless you have a specific axe to grind, then of course you're going to plug away at this for as long as you can.

You've forgotten how people voted the previous month in Scotland and what they mandated the SNP to do if a Brexit result was Scotland in/rUK out. Please remember we're talking about what Scottish voters want, not the SNP. You have a little bit of trouble keeping sight of the fact that a possible independence referendum was put on the SNP manifesto during the Holyrood election should this situation occur.

I'm not wrong about the momentum at all.

I'm afraid you are. It's been a solid 45% since the referendum, when it looked like Article 50 would be invoked straight after the vote, leapt up to well over 50%.. and has receeded slightly back over the following months as it looked like the Tories wouldn't actually go through with a hard Brexit. Article 50 is yet to be invoked and the Tories are looking like they're after a hard Brexit again.

If there is ever any for independence it's always short lived once the meme is debunked. And you go back to square one.

I think your faith in the SNP is mis-placed. The more bs memes that come out, the more SNP MP's who back these memes which are then debunked, the worse they look. You claim the people of Scotland trust the SNP, tell us all how many votes they got in the last Scottish parliament elections. Then tell us how many people are in the eligible vote in Scotland. Perhaps the little voyage of discovery that takes you on will open your blinkers a little to the savage reality of being in the minority supporting dishonest memes and falsehoods.

I'm not really sure what you're talking about here. Meme's ? The SNP got more votes than the other three parties put together. As for trust, please again take the below on board.

New analysis from the Scottish Social Attitudes Survey found 73% of respondents trust the Scottish Government – compared to only 23% who trust the UK Government.When compared to a previous study of trust in national governments across the EU, Scotland’s nearest challengers were Finland and Denmark, ranking 60% and 55% respectively.


The study also shows that trust in the Scottish Government is more than twice the EU average of 31%.
Results of the Scottish Social Attitudes Survey were released this week.

http://stv.tv/news/politics/1347185-scottish-government-most-trusted-government-in-europe/

You now excuse Nicola's actions, using her own 'project fear'. You excuse them because it's convenient to do so now citing previous abusers of peoples fear as some form of vindication for doing so. I hope you know that's not how it works and that afterwards such actions will be remembered, just as you did in your previous post with Cameron, Osborne and Davidson. The shine is coming off isn't it?

Where ? What shine ? You've yet to counter any point I've made about trust and what was said about job losses from politicians from ALL parties in the run up to Brexit. I was simply pointing out that to you.

The 62% were only in Scotland, a regional result of no consequence in a pan-UK vote.

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THIS is why many Scots now want independence. You've put it in a nutshell.

What of the voters in Scotland who backed Leave, are they not to be represented by Nicola? Where is the appetite for 'soft-independence' if compromise and mediation are now supposed to be the order of the day? It's all laughably two faced and ridiculous, more so when we delve into the grimy details of what SNP independence may actually look like.

After the Scottish referendum were you thinking 'but what off all those voters who backed 'Yes' ?. Your sudden concern is heartwarming, but a majority is a majority. That's how the voting system works when it comes to referendums. Sturgeon would like a soft Brexit, if there is to be one. It makes things easier all round for everyone.

If another party comes forward with honest aims and intentions for independence then it would be good for the people of Scotland, even if independence never came to pass, because the current brand of politics and grassroots support is toxic, deluded and just plain wrong about many things. I think deep down you know this to be true in the hammering you take on this forum. Only when independence makes sense from an honest point of view will enough people support it, and accept it, for it to take hold and succeed.

The foolish man builds his house upon the sand.

The hammering I take on this forum is because I've very much in the minority when presenting my perspectives. I visit a few others that are Scotland based. They are far more reflective of the current political concerns and issues and about 50/50 regarding independence. And whatever we discuss here, and however hard I get 'hammered'. It's the people on those other Scottish based discussion areas who will have their ultimate say at the ballot box. Not 95% of the posters on this one. I enjoy visiting and interacting on all of them, this one included.