The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Enterprise_1701C

Shakethedisease wrote: »

By seeking to remain in the EU, there won't need to be any formal application. That's entirely the point of calling a ref before the UK leaves. In fact it's the only reason for Sturgeon to call a referendum in the next two years. <---- You and a few others here really do need to take this point on board.

Sturgeon/SNP and the Scottish Greens have no intention of leaving the EU/Single Market under any circumstances. And certainly not only to have to go through the palaver of rejoining again a few years later. Other than the EU issue and remaining within it she could just wait it out until the polls moved a bit more over the next 3 or 4 years.

The EU hasn't said anything officially. Though one of their chief negotiators seems to think Scotland remaining while rUK leaves would be doable. We'll see how that pans out, but nevertheless every single move Sturgeon makes in the next few months/year will be towards remaining in the EU/Single market one way or another, not leaving and rejoining. Article 50 first though.

How can you remain a member of the EU when you are not actually a member at the moment? You are part of a member country. There are too many countries with separatist issues willing to veto anything like that, they want to discourage separatists in their countries by stamping on Scotland.

If Scotland ever joins the EU the country will cease to exist, is that really what you want?

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

...
She'll send support for independence through the roof. Well over the 50% needed. The SNP may well either go ahead with an advisory ref or else dissolve the current parliament in Holyrood and stand along with the Greens on a a 'vote for us vote for independence negotiations' manifesto in the subsequent election.
...

You keep telling us that independence is a formality anyway, so why should May worry about her actions north of the border?

The biggest threat to her government is from within and the UKIP vote.

If she started to acknowledge Scottish independence demands during the Article 50 period, she would lose support in her own party.

The actions of the SNP are not winning any friends down here. They are a minority party in the context of the UK and should be ignored.

ruggedtoast

The right wingers on here are displaying exactly the same sneering ridicule toward Scottish Independence as they are on the Corbyn threads.

They are systemically incapable of understanding how any of the other 60 million people with which they share a country could be anything other than delighted to be ruled by a right wing xenophobic government.

They hate Europe, they hate foreigners, they hate liberals, they hate the Left, they hate people who live in London, they hate political correctness, otherwise known as treating people with respect, they hate that it's not still the nineteen fifties and they hate the uppity Scots.

But they expect all of these groups to dance to their unpleasant tune.

I would say that Scottish independence isn't yet inevitable, and considering even Tory MPs are becoming turned off by May's dictatorial UKIP leadership, all may not be lost.

Otherwise I don think Scotland will be willing to tolerate mini Thatcher for especially long combined with the madness of being dragged out of Europe to please a bunch of racist English pensioners and delusional Daily Mail readers.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

By seeking to remain in the EU, there won't need to be any formal application. That's entirely the point of calling a ref before the UK leaves.

That's utter nonsense. Sounds more like desperation to keep the Indy movement alive. Heading for a train wreck. One can assume that the SNP know that any economic debate will be hopelessly lost. So "Brexit" is the only card they have left to play.

Enterprise_1701C

All I know is I like being British.

I do not want to be part of a superstate that will eventually wipe out all national identity.

The EU have every intention of forcing political and financial unity and do not care who they ride roughshod over to achieve it.

Most countries that are part of the Euro are now in financial trouble. I do not call that a coincidence. And they will almost certainly force all EU members to take the Euro before too long.

If they had simply left it at the common market then it would have been fine, but they had to take it further, and it has got to the stage where one country, Germany, has far too much say in what goes on in the EU. It is an undemocratic protectionist area. For example, the EU has spent years negotiating a trade deal with Canada only for it to look like being vetoed by a small part of Belgium.

On the other hand, if you come along with the UK, we will be able to negotiate trade deals with many countries without being dictated to by 27 other countries.

Instead of saying we are losing access to the single market, which is, incidentally, decreasing in value, try saying we will be able to negotiate our own trade deals with any country we want to (outside of the protectionist state of EU).

The EU will have less value in a few years too, other countries are watching and waiting with their population wanting referendums on their membership.

ruggedtoast

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

All I know is I like being British.

I do not want to be part of a superstate that will eventually wipe out all national identity.

The EU have every intention of forcing political and financial unity and do not care who they ride roughshod over to achieve it.

Most countries that are part of the Euro are now in financial trouble. I do not call that a coincidence. And they will almost certainly force all EU members to take the Euro before too long.

If they had simply left it at the common market then it would have been fine, but they had to take it further, and it has got to the stage where one country, Germany, has far too much say in what goes on in the EU. It is an undemocratic protectionist area. For example, the EU has spent years negotiating a trade deal with Canada only for it to look like being vetoed by a small part of Belgium.

On the other hand, if you come along with the UK, we will be able to negotiate trade deals with many countries without being dictated to by 27 other countries.

Instead of saying we are losing access to the single market, which is, incidentally, decreasing in value, try saying we will be able to negotiate our own trade deals with any country we want to (outside of the protectionist state of EU).

The EU will have less value in a few years too, other countries are watching and waiting with their population wanting referendums on their membership.

Straight from the UKIP handbook of reactionary nonsense. Provide a single piece of supporting evidence for any of these polemic statements.

How is the EU robbing you of your Britishness?

How are the Scots and Welsh to be expected to remain in a union with England while the English rob them of their identity?

Enterprise_1701C

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Straight from the UKIP handbook of reactionary nonsense. Provide a single piece of supporting evidence for any of these polemic statements.

How is the EU robbing you of your Britishness?

How are the Scots and Welsh to be expected to remain in a union with England while the English rob them of their identity?

The EU plan to become a superstate. They do not like countries standing on their own. That is why they want a single currency, a single army, a single banking system etc.

How have we robbed the Scots and Welsh of their identity (how did the Welsh come into this, they voted out of the EU). You are still Scotland, and more and more power is being devolved to you.

I don't have to provide evidence, it is there in the public domain for everyone to see.

Thrugelmir

ruggedtoast wrote: »

How is the EU robbing you of your Britishness?

A federal state consisting of fiscal and political union is the ultimate goal of the dream makers in Brussels. No great secret either been known for many years. It's the only way that the EU can function fully. The situation cannot continue where member states choose what they implement.

Moto2

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Germany, has far too much say in what goes on in the EU. It is an undemocratic protectionist area. For example, the EU has spent years negotiating a trade deal with Canada only for it to look like being vetoed by a small part of Belgium.

Seemingly, Germany doesn't have enough power to prevent a 'small part of Belgium' vetoing a trade deal.
If they are such a dictator why don't they simply over-rule the 'small part of Belgium'?

Enterprise_1701C

Moto2 wrote: »

Seemingly, Germany doesn't have enough power to prevent a 'small part of Belgium' vetoing a trade deal.
If they are such a dictator why don't they simply over-rule the 'small part of Belgium'?

There is a difference to having power, and having power to overrule a veto. A veto is set in stone. I imagine that the EU will start removing the veto in a lot of areas of legislation, but they would not remove it on trade deals. It is all about protectionism.