The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

And I have correctly noted that the majority of the UK's fishing grounds are not within the power of Theresa May's UK government to use as a negotiating chip.

I didn't ask whether or not it was a negotiating chip. I wasn't responding to Conrad, I was responding to what you'd said.

Is it a good or bad thing for Scottish people to want to have control over their own fishing grounds as a result of Brexit?

Then is it a good or a bad thing that some Scottish people want to become independent from the UK, who will be giving Scotland control over these waters, for Holyrood to grant it straight back again to the EU?

TrickyTree83

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

All Scots would automatically retain UK citizenship upon independence as a matter of law.

Future Scottish citizens may not - depending on the deal that was done and future interpretations of right to UK citizenship by parenthood.

Right.. so does that also mean that current UK citizens would benefit from Scottish citizenship? Or is this a one way street of bs?

The only people in Scotland who would retain UK citizenship would be those born in the UK (excl Scotland) who reside in Scotland. It's the same the world over. Born in Glasgow - Scottish citizenship only. Scottish pension, Scottish welfare.

Don't think the UK government will hold your hands on this, you want to flick Westminster the finger and expect them to help you out in doing so.

My father in law holds Russian citizenship, lives in Ukraine, can you guess who pays his welfare bill?

elantan

We've already stated your welcome here as long as your willing to help us build a better country for all ... haters ... not so much

beecher2

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Right.. so does that also mean that current UK citizens would benefit from Scottish citizenship? Or is this a one way street of bs?

The only people in Scotland who would retain UK citizenship would be those born outside of Scotland who reside in Scotland. It's the same the world over.

My father in law holds Russian citizenship, lives in Ukraine, can you guess who pays his welfare bill?

Have a read of this working paper, especially the conclusion which might help you understand. I don't think using Ukraine and Russia as an example is very helpful to be honest.

http://www.citsee.ed.ac.uk/working_papers/files/CITSEE_WORKING_PAPER_2013-34.pdf

As noted earlier, it would seem that existing UK citizens in Scotland would be likely to continue to hold rUK citizenship, unless the rUK government changed the rules on holding rUK citizenship and in doing so broke the link to the historic conditions of UK citizenship which appear to be tolerant of dual or multiple citizenship

kabayiri

Let's have this advisory referendum first

When is it btw?

I might be washing my hair that day...

Oh, I forgot. There is a discussion about a plan for a consultation regarding the outline timetable for a strategy to put in place the conditions for an advisory referendum.

Is Nicola Sturgeon a gardening fan? She seems pretty good at hedges

TrickyTree83

beecher2 wrote: »

Have a read of this working paper, especially the conclusion which might help you understand. I don't think using Ukraine and Russia as an example is very helpful to be honest.

http://www.citsee.ed.ac.uk/working_papers/files/CITSEE_WORKING_PAPER_2013-34.pdf

Citizenship does not guarantee a UK state pension. Only NI contributions do, come on. If you're not paying into the system how can you expect to take from the system? According to those who voted remain that was a driving factor in the vote to leave, it wasn't mine, but that's what's said.

So do you honestly think, regardless of how many articles and papers you publish pre-2014 indy vote, that the UK government will pay out pensions to Scottish citizens who are no longer paying into the system?

I would find it far more likely that some NI contributions made by Scottish citizens would be repatriated to Scotland and no UK pensions will be paid to any Scottish citizens regardless of their dual citizenship and a Scottish NI system will need to be set up in order to provide a Scottish state pension. UK taxpayers will not be paying Scottish pensions in an independent Scotland.

And how much is all this negotiation and calculation going to cost? Who will stump up for the bill? I sure as hell won't be voting for anyone who thinks we should share the cost of Scottish independence.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

The only people in Scotland who would retain UK citizenship would be those born in the UK (excl Scotland) who reside in Scotland. It's the same the world over. Born in Glasgow - Scottish citizenship only. Scottish pension, Scottish welfare.

You really are misinformed.

UK citizenship is retained - there is no mechanism to strip UK citizenship from millions of existing citizens.

TrickyTree83

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

You really are misinformed.

UK citizenship is retained - there is no mechanism to strip UK citizenship from millions of existing citizens.

Edit: No I'm not.


https://www.freemovement.org.uk/dual-citizenship-and-scottish-independence/

It would appear you are mis-informed, only the Scottish government appear to suggest that everyone in Scotland would retain UK citizenship alongside Scottish citizenship.

beecher2

Tricky, you do know that people born in Belfast can choose Irish or British citizenship? Or indeed both.

kabayiri

beecher2 wrote: »

Have a read of this working paper, especially the conclusion which might help you understand. I don't think using Ukraine and Russia as an example is very helpful to be honest.

http://www.citsee.ed.ac.uk/working_papers/files/CITSEE_WORKING_PAPER_2013-34.pdf

Thing is, wouldn't you ideally want a clean break?

I'm sure some scheme could be concocted whereby iScotland makes NI payments in return for state pension entitlements, but what if a future rUK government decides to cut back on state pensions to save money?

It strikes me that you are not really that independent then.

In a similar vein the UK was always a half-committed member of Europe. We didn't buy in to Schengen; we didn't buy in to the Euro.