The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

beecher2

wotsthat wrote: »

May's comments were aimed squarely at Sturgeon and the waning SNP.

Probably why the Scottish peoples haven't risen up. You're the last person I'd expect to be trying to whip up nationalist fervour.

The waning SNP? They're on 52%!

http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/how-would-you-use-your-constituency-vote-in-a-scottish-parliament-election#line

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I think I should remind you that it was your party that called this dreadful and inauspicious referendum. .

Indeed - although when that manifesto pledge was first thought of nobody, and I mean nobody, in their right mind could possibly have predicted the Labour party would immolate itself by electing Ed and Jezza as the next two leaders.

1%.... That's all it would have taken.

And if a Labour leader who actually didn't want us to leave the EU couldn't have moved just 1% of the electorate to vote Remain - there's little hope for your party - ever again.

ruggedtoast

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Indeed - although when that manifesto pledge was first thought of nobody, and I mean nobody, in their right mind could possibly have predicted the Labour party would immolate itself by electing Ed and Jezza as the next two leaders.

1%.... That's all it would have taken.

And if a Labour leader who actually didn't want us to leave the EU couldn't have moved just 1% of the electorate to vote Remain - there's little hope for your party - ever again.

So lets just get this straight.

Labour, the party that weren't the party of government, didn't call or want a referendum, and whose supporters came out as almost 70% in accordance with the Conservative governments wishes in this matter, are to blame.

Meanwhile, the Tories, a party that were in government, did want a referendum, ran a hopelessly flat footed campaign that ended up with a majority of their own supporters voting against them, are not to blame?

?????????????????????????????????????
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, thats what you're going with?

Fella

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I think I should remind you that it was your party that called this dreadful and inauspicious referendum.

A decision 100% vindicated by the result.

It's one thing for Remainers to be bitter they lost. It's truly astounding that in the knowledge a clear majority actually wanted to leave the EU, some still claim the country shouldn't have even been allowed a vote!

The best thing Cameron ever did. Probably his only truly great act as PM. Even though he himself presumably regrets it now. Perhaps in time this will be recognized for the democratic act it was.

wotsthat

beecher2 wrote: »

The waning SNP? They're on 52%!

http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/how-would-you-use-your-constituency-vote-in-a-scottish-parliament-election#line

Sturgeon has been banging on about Tories forever, being done over by Brexit and Labour have committed suicide yet they can still only manage 52% and Tory share is increasing.

They must be both perplexed and disappointed in SNP towers.

ruggedtoast

Fella wrote: »

A decision 100% vindicated by the result.

It's one thing for Remainers to be bitter they lost. It's truly astounding that in the knowledge a clear majority actually wanted to leave the EU, some still claim the country shouldn't have even been allowed a vote!

The best thing Cameron ever did. Probably his only truly great act as PM. Even though he himself presumably regrets it now. Perhaps in time this will be recognized for the democratic act it was.

If asked, the majority of people would vote for capital punishment to be returned, to pay no taxes, for weekends to be 6 days long, and to be fellated by a midget each morning.

That doesn't mean they should be asked those questions or given these things if indeed they are.

That is NOT democracy, it is stupidity.

beecher2

wotsthat wrote: »

Sturgeon has been banging on about Tories forever, being done over by Brexit and Labour have committed suicide yet they can still only manage 52% and Tory share is increasing.

They must be both perplexed and disappointed in SNP towers.

'only manage' 52%, good lord. You've got to be kidding? The tories are on 21%, is a 30% lead really proof of a party on the wane?

TrickyTree83

beecher2 wrote: »

'only manage' 52%, good lord. You've got to be kidding? The tories are on 21%, is a 30% lead really proof of a party on the wane?

That's fantastic.

Either you understand what those percentages are and you're obviously attempting to deceive or you're unaware of what they are and you shouldn't be quoting them.

52% of what?

beecher2

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

That's fantastic.

Either you understand what those percentages are and you're obviously attempting to deceive or you're unaware of what they are and you shouldn't be quoting them.

52% of what?

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/771687526121762816

Could you explain how I am attempting to deceive?

edit: I should've said a 31 point lead but I think most people would realise it was a hasty mistake - is this what you're talking about?

.string.

@Shakey - I will try to get this back to a topic worth discussing. (*)



However I can't promise too much in the way of prolonged discussion I'm afraid Shakey, not because I won't but because my current internet situation is diabolical. I'm in an apartment block in Mallorca with a 300mb/sec optical fibre connection downstairs but frustratingly no access to it because I'm only here for a bit and I have to limp along with a slow, very limited bandwidth, painfully entering things on this phone thing I am using. I seem to spend more time trying to find mistakes in spelling than thinking, as must be obvious sometimes from the number of times I have to edit posts. I call it "porsting", a nod to the auto-correct function .

I will do this off-line and will try but it will be a one off exceptional labour.

But at least I can get some BBC stuff here so at the moment I am watching Mundale's speech - naturally I assume he speaks for all Scots.


Re the fishery thing - I absolutely don't think that is going anywhere but to its rightful devolved place in Scotland. It would be a tricky thing if the SNP were to argue for it to remain as part of an EU resource rather than a Scottish resource while the Tories were trying to return control of it to Scotland. At the moment the subject maybe can be used as a source of uncertainty in a war of words, but one statement from May can destroy it as a pro EU argument. The same for Agriculture presumably.

So I doubt those things can be on the "stay-in-the-EU" side of the argument, especially since the policy of continued maintenance of EU subsidies by the UK becomes established. With UK trade running at more than 4 times that to the EU, the concept of a UK-wide "linked economy" will also become more evident as a real benefit.

On the broader picture, the Admin Bill (whatever it's called) is really just that (I presume) or should be, so in the absence of hard fact I have to assume that it will distinguish within it those things that come under the competence (responsibility) of the UK Government and the Devolved Governments. IF that is truly the case the room for controversy is limited, not that I would disparage the SNP's proven skill in finding such.

Not that I think either that the Bill will be easy, it may not be possible to finalise it before the full details of Brexit are known and I suspect there will need to be another Bill to put into law a new arrangement with the EU, but that would be after Brexit I suspect. If we have some form of compromise there may be a need for some form of legislative machinery to deal with updates to EU standards etc as they arrive; I doubt it but it's possible.

But I recognise that the strategy you explain is not just about the particular but the principle of the UK "forcing" anything on Scotland. That has some traction though is built on flaky ground because in the end it has its roots on what is devolved and what isn't and will resonate only to those who are full-on separatists, not those who favour Union which by its very nature allocates responsibilities to those done centrally with those which are devolved and for whom reserved matters are logical and acceptable. The process where such things get aired will mainly be the inevitable HoC debate/s on the Brexit actually negotiated.

You give dire "warnings" about a referendum not being agreed. But I see that as an attempt to play the super-whinge card of Wicked Westminster, not a certainty. As I've said before it all depends on how the refusal is phrased. A very good case can be made for delaying a referendum on the basis that the facts are not yet before the Scottish people. In that scenario the credibility of the SNP claim that Scotland can go straight into the EU without leaving it will be crucial which is why, of course, you take great care not to admit there are issues there. I'm not Theresa May of course, but if I were I would already be examining the best way to destroy that argument for good, even to the point of directly asking the question of the EU during the negotiations themselves: not that it has not already been shot down a number of times already.

There are other more Machiavellian tactics that could be employed, but that's for another time. I hope they are not used.

So yes, I see the point of appealing to Scottish Pride by contributing a Westminster vs Scotland stand-off but when the basis of the stand-off is built on sand it won't work.

It is also worth mentioning again that a Scottish Referendum in the middle of the Brexit negotiations is not conducive to the negotiations nor in the interests of the UK, with Scotland or without.

One aside: I was expecting Artical 50 to be triggered fairly close to Jan 1st (no need for negotiations on funding for part of a new year, clean break/change in funding for cooperative products, monetary advantage for passing over to the EU alocating funding for 2019 etc), so was surprised when she said March 31st at the latest, but I presume that backstop involves a safety margin. I note that Sky has reported that Goverment officials are working to mid January). We shall see.