The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

The_Last_Username wrote: »

Quite so.

Clinging on to desperate hopes that somehow the Sewell convention - or indeed anything else - will somehow prevent Scotland from being taken out of the EU as part of the UK are just that; desperate hopes.
Nothing more.
Not so.
AGAIN - constitution is not a devolved issue for Scotland, no matter how you choose to read it; therefore Westminster "has to bulldoze" nothing.
Westminster holds absolute power, whether you like it or not.

Then read the very first line in section 2 from the linked "The Sewell Act: Key Facts" fom Scot.Gov:
http://www.gov.scot/About/Government/Sewel/KeyFacts

Is THAT clear enough for you?
It is certainly clear enough to me just who is kidding themselves.
Hint *it ain't me*.

For goodness sake, I've pointed out and stated several times in the last few posts that Westminster WILL overrule the Sewel Convention. Do you not read posts through properly ? EU law is written into every aspect of devolved law.

I'm clinging on to nothing. But politically, is not going to go down well in either Scotland nor in NI which again I've taken great pains to post about in the last few of my posts. Westminster will have to bulldoze the legislation through despite the Scottish parliaments ( SNP, Labour, Lib Dems, Greens ) almost exclusive opposition.

Will be good for the SNP and any future Yes campaign in terms of boosting support most likely. But all eyes will be on Kezia Dugdale and Willie Rennie first and foremost. We'll be needing definitive answers from them on this aspect of Brexit very soon - rather than the current 'we want Scotland to stay in both the EU and the UK' fantasy lands they both currently inhabit. Be interesting to see how far they'll go in agreeing that Brexit Tories should undermine the very parliament they sit in.

NI will be interesting too.

Thrugelmir

Talk about playing to the audience.

The First Minister's meeting with a junior German minister in August has been mocked after it emerged it took place in a restaurant.

Sturgeon travelled to Berlin on August 9 for a meeting with Michael Roth, a junior minister in Angela Merkel's coalition cabinet, to discuss the UK's vote to leave the European Union.

The meeting was not publicised to the Scottish press before the trip and was announced in a joint press release after the engagement between both parties.

On the day of the trip Roth's office refused to disclose to the news agency Reuters where the meeting was held despite stating in the press release that the pair initially met at the German foreign office.

STV News has learned through a Freedom of Information request that the meeting was actually held in a restaurant as opposed to any German federal government venue.

Roth, who is a member of the SPD which is the junior party in the coalition, took Sturgeon to Vau after posing for pictures with her inside the foreign office.

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Talk about playing to the audience.

Does your post have an point to it that I've missed along the way ? I remember this meeting, he was billed as a very junior EU minister indeed. Then when he said the UK might get a special deal he was suddenly a very, very important man splashed across the newspapers. Laughable the UK media at times.

Is further back in the thread.

Taken from elsewhere.

For context she also met with,

• Jean Claude Junker - President. (www.youtube.com/watch?v=up3DAywBbbo)
• Margaritis Schinas - Chief spokesperson for the EU Commission. (https://wildernessofpeace.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/margaritisschinas.jpg)
• Martin Schulz. President of the European Parliament, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMJ8Y_v4WhM
• Robert Fico, Soon to be as the next President of the European Union.

Plus the foreign ministers from each of Spain, Ireland, Belgium and Germany.

May has thrown down the gauntlet now anyway, so there will be much more in the way of 'Sturgeon accused' and 'blow to Sturgeon' now in an attempt to do what they did to Salmond last time. However, Sturgeon's audience and who she needs to convince stops firmly at the border. Most who post here from elsewhere in the UK always forget that bit.

The_Last_Username

Shakethedisease wrote: »

For goodness sake, I've pointed out and stated several times in the last few posts that Westminster WILL overrule the Sewel Convention. Do you not read posts through properly ? EU law is written into every aspect of devolved law.

I'm clinging on to nothing. But politically, is not going to go down well in either Scotland nor in NI which again I've taken great pains to post about in the last few of my posts. Westminster will have to bulldoze the legislation through despite the Scottish parliaments ( SNP, Labour, Lib Dems, Greens ) almost exclusive opposition.

Will be good for the SNP and any future Yes campaign in terms of boosting support most likely. But all eyes will be on Kezia Dugdale and Willie Rennie first and foremost. We'll be needing definitive answers from them on this aspect of Brexit very soon - rather than the current 'we want Scotland to stay in both the EU and the UK' fantasy lands they both currently inhabit. Be interesting to see how far they'll go in agreeing that Brexit Tories should undermine the very parliament they sit in.

NI will be interesting too.

Oh for goodness sake!
You have the nerve to ask if I read posts properly?
Laughable!

Shakethedisease: "Westminster will have to bulldoze the legislation through"

NOT SO.

From my post above:

Quote:
Shakethedisease: "It will be Westminster having to bulldoze the leglislation through for both Scotland and NI neither of whom want any part of it."
Not so.
AGAIN - constitution is not a devolved issue for Scotland, no matter how you choose to read it; therefore Westminster "has to bulldoze" nothing.
Westminster holds absolute power, whether you like it or not.

Politically "not going down too well"?
Meh.
How unusual in any form of politics.
Not.

You are (as usual) trying your very best to make a mountain out of a molehill.
A very small molehill at that.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Does your post have an point to it that I've missed along the way ?

Merely that creating illusions for the media (i.e. spin) is a sure way of losing respect.

Shakethedisease

The_Last_Username wrote: »

Oh for goodness sake!
You have the nerve to ask if I read posts properly?
Laughable!


NOT SO.

From my post above:
Politically "not going down too well"?
Meh.
How unusual in any form of politics.
Not.

You are (as usual) trying your very best to make a mountain out of a molehill.
A very small molehill at that.

It's not a small molehill to the Scottish parliament nor Scottish voters I'm afraid. Not on any measure. You also misread my posts completely and suggested that I was clinging onto some kind of vain hope that the Sewel convention would be some way of keeping Scotland in the EU. I never stated any such thing, and said several times that Westminster would indeed over rule in this instance.

EU law is written into all devolved legislature. It will need to be repealed and rewritten. Holyrood will not do so.

This Brexit Bill will trigger need for Holyrood consent. Holyrood will vote against. UKGov will then overrule Holyrood. Uncharted territory.

On Scotland, Lords Constitutional committee concluded that Holyrood has no veto on Article 50, but consent 'may be required' for Repeal Bill

All of the above will be a gift to the SNP and independence support. Even you must see that no matter what your opinion on Scottish independence is ?

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Merely that creating illusions for the media (i.e. spin) is a sure way of losing respect.

Dear me, surely you're not under the impression that there are any circumstances whatsoever that the SNP ever get a chance to spin anything in the Scottish media lol. They are almost universally hated and maligned on a daily basis up here. The only spinning that's done is in completely the opposite direction and has been since about 2007.

The voters seem to have other ideas though.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

It's not a small molehill to the Scottish parliament nor Scottish voters I'm afraid. Not on any measure. You also misread my posts completely and suggested that I was clinging onto some kind of vain hope that the Sewel convention would be some way of keeping Scotland in the EU. I never stated any such thing, and said several times that Westminster would indeed over rule in this instance.

EU law is written into all devolved legislature. It will need to be repealed and rewritten. Holyrood will not do so.



All of the above will be a gift to the SNP and independence support. Even you must see that no matter what your opinion on Scottish independence is ?

Not one person with any regard to democracy would see it reasonable that either and/or Scotland and NI could over ride the democratic will of the people of the UK.

Of ourse many SNP people are honest enought to say they don't give a damn about democracy and base their case for independence on the basis of the result of vile Anglo Norman mass murderers autocrats. killing a lot of people a long time ago.
Mind you, this sort of thinking will sit very comfortable with some of the East Europe national socialists.

Shakethedisease

Ah yes, the arguments against this seem to be out of the starting blocks already.

Under the "Sewel convention" the UK Parliament may not legislate for devolved matters without the consent of the devolved legislature affected.

Speaking to the BBC's Sunday Politics Scotland programme, Mr Russell said such a bill would concern devolved matters and would therefore require MSPs' approval. He said: "This Great Repeal Act will require the approval of the Scottish parliament - a legislative consent motion will be required.
"So the Scottish government, the Scottish Parliament has a formal role there.

Asked whether the Scottish Parliament might refuse to give legislative consent, he pointed to recent parliament votes demonstrating opposition to a "hard Brexit".
He said: "Presently there is a majority against that repeal bill - that's absolutely obvious."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-37533873

Please note this majority he talks of at present includes all MSP's except the Tories.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

Not one person with any regard to democracy would see it reasonable that either and/or Scotland and NI could over ride the democratic will of the people of the UK.

Of ourse many SNP people are honest enought to say they don't give a damn about democracy and base their case for independence on the basis of the result of vile Anglo Norman mass murderers autocrats. killing a lot of people a long time ago.
Mind you, this sort of thinking will sit very comfortable with some of the East Europe national socialists.

Please note this majority he talks of at present includes ALL MSP's except the Tories. Don't put this one at the SNP door Clapton, this is about the Scottish parliament as a whole.