The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Thrugelmir

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Proud Scots will not be cowed by the Tories' ham fisted bullying.

The 'Conservative' party and it's wrinkled rump of bigots and xenophobes is about to preside over the dissolution of the united kingdom.

In that case it's time for a

:beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer:

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

It's very arguable that faisal islam does not know what he is talking about. Is that the best you can do? Do you have another straw?' A straw poll perhaps?

He was quoting 'experts'.

Any idea how Westminster are going to get Holyrood to vote through Brexit ? Without having to just ignore them and cause a constitutional crisis ? ( <--- Institute of Government last week ). Because it won't just be the SNP they'll be ignoring, it will be Scottish Labour, Greens, Lib Dems and 62% of Scottish voters.

Good luck with that.

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Your lack of understanding of the wider world never ceases to amaze me.

And your complete lack of logic astounds me.

The_Last_Username

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Any idea how Westminster are going to get Holyrood to vote through Brexit ? Without having to just ignore them and cause a constitutional crisis ? ( <--- Institute of Government last week ). Because it won't just be the SNP they'll be ignoring, it will be Scottish Labour, Greens, Lib Dems and 62% of Scottish voters.

Uh ........... why?
The whole of the UK voted (or had the opportunity to) and the majority voted to leave the UK.

According to The Scottish Parliament itself in the link below, and I quote:

The Scottish Government is the government of Scotland for devolved matters.

and

There is a member of the UK Government known as the Secretary of State for Scotland whose role is to represent Scotland’s interests on reserved matters within the UK Government.

http://www.parliament.scot/PublicInformationdocuments/SP_Holyrood_and_Westminster_English_Sept_2014.pdf

So now THAT has been established, here's a list (link below) of devolved & reserved matters.
Right at the bottom of reserved is "the Constituition.".
http://www.parliament.scot/visitandlearn/12506.aspx
Now since the UK as a whole voted to leave AND since Scotland does not legally (yet and according to the above) have the power to prevent the UK from leaving, why should Scotland's approval be needed any more than say, just for example, Wigan's or Carlisle's?

The time to object should have been BEFORE the referendum took place.
Enough notice was given.
Ergo tacit acknowledgement of possible outcomes were accepted BEFORE the referendum took place.

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

He was quoting 'experts'.

Any idea how Westminster are going to get Holyrood to vote through Brexit ? Without having to just ignore them and cause a constitutional crisis ? ( <--- Institute of Government last week ). Because it won't just be the SNP they'll be ignoring, it will be Scottish Labour, Greens, Lib Dems and 62% of Scottish voters.

Good luck with that.

It's interesting to note that the SNP increasingly hysterical approach is to whinge about not knowing what Brexit will be and simultaneously declare, wrecking ball mode, that whatever it is they will vote against it.

Unfortunately that seems to be the normal mode for that obsessionist party.

On the constitutional matter, I refer you, yet again to my previous post
HERE

TrickyTree83

The_Last_Username wrote: »

Uh ........... why?
The whole of the UK voted (or had the opportunity to) and the majority voted to leave the UK.

According to The Scottish Parliament itself in the link below, and I quote:
and
http://www.parliament.scot/PublicInformationdocuments/SP_Holyrood_and_Westminster_English_Sept_2014.pdf

So now THAT has been established, here's a list (link below) of devolved & reserved matters.
Right at the bottom of reserved is "the Constituition.".
http://www.parliament.scot/visitandlearn/12506.aspx
Now since the UK as a whole voted to leave AND since Scotland does not legally (yet and according to the above) have the power to prevent the UK from leaving, why should Scotland's approval be needed any more than say, just for example, Wigan's or Carlisle's?

The time to object should have been BEFORE the referendum took place.
Enough notice was given.
Ergo tacit acknowledgement of possible outcomes were accepted BEFORE the referendum took place.

This.

We can all go down imaginary rabbit warrens of logic to prove this, that or the other. But it was a UK wide vote on a UK wide matter. Westminster was behind the referendum act and therefore compliance from devolved institutions is not required. The highest political power in the land brought the act into being and will also see it through. If you think not because Holyrood doesn't want it they'll need to be independent before they can actually do anything about it.

There's no getting round that one. It is what it is, there's no loopholes to exploit or hurdles to jump constitutionally in the UK regarding Brexit. You only believe there is because you want them to exist. Wind back to what question was asked, how it came to be asked, and who (the demos) was asked and you'll come to the same conclusion as parliament or a court of law.

mrginge

Shakethedisease wrote: »

He was quoting 'experts'.

Any idea how Westminster are going to get Holyrood to vote through Brexit ? Without having to just ignore them and cause a constitutional crisis ? ( <--- Institute of Government last week ). Because it won't just be the SNP they'll be ignoring, it will be Scottish Labour, Greens, Lib Dems and 62% of Scottish voters.

Good luck with that.

Why do you care about this?
Your plan is to have voted to leave the UK before brexit is finalised.

Mind you your original plan was to be having Indy ref2 before article 50 was invoked, so I guess it's par for the course that you keep booting this ref further and further down the line.

.string.

mrginge wrote: »

Why do you care about this?
Your plan is to have voted to leave the UK before brexit is finalised.

Mind you your original plan was to be having Indy ref2 before article 50 was invoked, so I guess it's par for the course that you keep booting this ref further and further down the line.

It's a mixture of panic, an overactive fantasy gland and wanting to have the last word.

Meanwhile Sturgeon has marched her wee army to the top of the hill and is now searching for detours so nobody notices her marching them all down again.

Thrugelmir

.string. wrote: »

Meanwhile Sturgeon has marched her wee army to the top of the hill and is now searching for detours so nobody notices her marching them all down again.

Isn't it a question of keeping her army there. As once the less committed followers start to drift there'll be lost for ever. Words can only last so long.

.string.

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Isn't it a question of keeping her army there. As once the less committed followers start to drift there'll be lost for ever. Words can only last so long.

Ah - yes - I wonder if there are clouds up there.