The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Look even I can see the huge big glaring flaw in what Dumfries and Galloway are trying to achieve. And using your argument, and theirs.. should Westminster give the right for Dumfries and Galloway to remain in the UK, then by doing so, they're also giving other areas of Scotland the right to leave the UK by the same means.

Not a good idea if followed to conclusion. Glasgow, Dundee most of Edinburgh and the West of Scotland would 'choose to leave the UK' using exactly the same legislation as Dumfries and Galloway would use to stay in the UK. The councillors suggesting this are buffoons of the first order, because they don't seem to have realised yet.

Sure give them the right to stay in the UK. But only if other areas of Scotland get the right to leave. See the teensy problem there ?

so 1000 year of vile autocratic rule trumps democracy.

LABMAN

Has she actually make a coherent point?

Leanne1812

LABMAN wrote: »

Joanna Cherry on Question Time...REALLY? Ha Ha Ha

Strange comment....

She is an MP, why shouldn't she be on QT?

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

That's the way representative democracy works in the UK Clapton. You and the people of Dumfries and Galloway will just have to suck it up like everyone else has to.

Whoa, you've been losing the plot over the last couple of pages. Polls not mattering now that they're not supporting your position, but this.. This is weapons grade hypocrisy. To suggest the people of Dumfries and Galloway will have to 'suck it up' as "not a country" and part of a representative democracy is EXACTLY how some of us feel when you talk about Scotland. It's not a country either! It gives the appearance in the losest sense, your sovereignty doesn't lie in Scotland. Nor does Dumfries and Galloway's in their region. The UK is your representative democracy.

How on earth can you defend such an outrageous position without admitting you're an out and out Scottish nationalist and only an independent Scotland fits the narrative you want to portray? Politics, bleh, economics, double bleh, nothing matters except and independent Scotland at any cost under any circumstance. Is that accurate? If not please explain why you think Dumfries and Galloway should bend knee to Scotland in the same circumstances as Scotland, and why Scotland shouldn't bend knee to the UK when in that circumstance?

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Whoa, you've been losing the plot over the last couple of pages. Polls not mattering now that they're not supporting your position, but this.. This is weapons grade hypocrisy. To suggest the people of Dumfries and Galloway will have to 'suck it up' as "not a country" and part of a representative democracy is EXACTLY how some of us feel when you talk about Scotland. It's not a country either! It gives the appearance in the losest sense, your sovereignty doesn't lie in Scotland. Nor does Dumfries and Galloway's in their region. The UK is your representative democracy.

How on earth can you defend such an outrageous position without admitting you're an out and out Scottish nationalist and only an independent Scotland fits the narrative you want to portray? Politics, bleh, economics, double bleh, nothing matters except and independent Scotland at any cost under any circumstance. Is that accurate? If not please explain why you think Dumfries and Galloway should bend knee to Scotland in the same circumstances as Scotland, and why Scotland shouldn't bend knee to the UK when in that circumstance?

Because what's being suggested is that should Scotland hold a referendum. Then whatever the result Yes or No, all local areas would get the right to pick and choose whether they want to stay in the UK or leave it. No matter what the referendum result is.

Now you could call that me losing it. Or you could just call me sensible for pointing out the very, very obvious flaw in the proposal. You seem to have - like Dumfries and Galloway totally missed the sensible conclusion to their headline grabbing fabby idea. Weapons grade hypocrisy isn't even in the frame Tricky. If one area of Scotland gets to choose to ignore a referendum result, then so do all of them.

And if Mark Diffley from Ipsos Mori pointing out the massive churn via the polls, as well as YouGov within the middle ground Yes to No/No to Yes/No to undecided isn't enough for you to believe what's happening then fine. What do you expect me to say to that ?

The problem with Scottish polls since round about 2007 onwards has always been the spin in the headlines. Some of us learnt years ago to ignore those and read the tables directly instead. I agree with Mr Diffley, there's massive swings going on in the wake of Brexit ( not solid Yes or No voters ) in all polling that won't choose a side until things really get going again.

You're free to post elsewhere if my not agreeing with your viewpoints offends you at all.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Because what's being suggested is that should Scotland hold a referendum. Then whatever the result Yes or No, all local areas would get the right to pick and choose whether they want to stay in the UK or leave it. No matter what the referendum result is.

Now you could call that me losing it. Or you could just call me sensible for pointing out the very, very obvious flaw in the proposal. You seem to have - like Dunfries and Galloway totally missed the sensible conclusion to their headline grabbing fabby idea. Weapons grade hypocrisy isn't even in the frame Tricky. If one area of Scotland gets to choose to ignore a referendum result, then so do all of them.

And if Mark Diffley from Ipsos Mori pointing out the massive churn via the polls, as well as YouGov within the middle ground Yes to No/No to Yes/No to undecided isn't enough for you to believe what's happening then fine. What do you expect me to say to that ?

The problem with Scottish polls since round about 2007 onwards has always been the spin in the headlines. Some of us learnt years ago to ignore those and read the tables directly instead. I agree with Mr Diffley, there's massive swings going on in the wake of Brexit ( not solid Yes or No voters ) in all polling that won't choose a side until things really get going again.

You're free to post elsewhere if my not agreeing with your viewpoints offends you at all.

So why can't we ignore Scotland's vote on the UK membership of the EU then as Scotland is a region of the UK? The UK as a whole voted out, that's the end of it, or do different rules apply? If so, why? Dumfries and Galloway have a council, they could hold an advisory referendum of their population too right?

Regarding the polls it was mainly towards your use of them to indicate a swing in favour, I remember pointing out the lack of appetite for another referendum as an aspect of that poll yet you used the headline against me, but now they swing against you change your tune. I'm happy to accept the nuances of the polls as you just pointed out but you were hammering the headline home only a month ago. Not so much now.

Shakethedisease

ps Scotland IS a country. A country in the UK which is a state made up of four different countries.

Dumfries and Galloway are not a country. And never have been.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

So why can't we ignore Scotland's vote on the UK membership of the EU then as Scotland is a region of the UK?

You're free to so exactly that. As long as Scotland is in the UK.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

ps Scotland IS a country. A country in the UK which is a state made up of four different countries.

Dumfries and Galloway are not a country. And never have been.

so you are confirming that you think democracy doesn't apply in scotland but instead you look to 1000 years of vile murderous warlords for you citizenship principles.

do you worship the holy mother/father land and see your historic role etched in the land.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

ps Scotland IS a country. A country in the UK which is a state made up of four different countries.

Dumfries and Galloway are not a country. And never have been.

Scotland is a constituent region of a nation state. The nation being the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Therefore Scotland is currently in exactly the same position regarding the UK that Dumfries and Galloway would be in regarding Scotland if it were to become independent - a constituent region of a nation state.

Under UN self-determination it doesn't matter if they've ever been a country or not.

So why is it OK for Scotland to break away from its nation but not Dumfries and Galloway in your eyes? Is it because you see Scotland/Alba as one nation?

That's how unionists see the United Kingdom, as one nation.