The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

That's rich coming from you two I'm afraid. All those months of Brexit talk, and it turns out no one has the faintest idea what to do when it actually happens.

You don't even know yet what you voted for nearly three months ago.. in the past.

I know what I want personally, but that's not in consultation with business, regions under UK jurisdiction, lawyers, etc.. And I'm not the PM.

Whatever it is that the UK government targets, negotiates and achieves we will only know after an agreement is there to accept or reject.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I know what I want personally, but that's not in consultation with business, regions under UK jurisdiction, lawyers, etc.. And I'm not the PM.

Whatever it is that the UK government targets, negotiates and achieves we will only know after an agreement is there to accept or reject.

Well then. Accept the same from any future Scottish referendum for those who vote. Clapton wants me to tune into Sturgeons thoughts and wants screeds of evidence for this tiniest little minute detail. All before any second referendum has even been announced and the legislation not even in draft form yet.

Article 50, then we can all get on with whatever that brings.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Well then. Accept the same from any future Scottish referendum for those who vote. Clapton wants me to tune into Sturgeons thoughts and wants screeds of evidence for this tiniest little minute detail. All before any second referendum has even been announced and the legislation not even in draft form yet.

Article 50, then we can all get on with whatever that brings.

I would say at article 50 it's too early, you won't know what the outcome of negotiations will be. So there won't be as clear a choice as in 2014, then again perhaps that's the tactic.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I think it's highly probable, that once Article 50 is triggered and rUK is leaving for 100% true, definite, really really, no second referendum, no parliamentary vote blah blah. That the EU will announce it's position re an independent Scotland.

Scotland isn't independent though. The EU isn't going to reveal it's hand until there are formal talks regarding membership.

mrginge

Shakethedisease wrote: »

No. I'm not a fortune teller.

I think it's highly probable, that once Article 50 is triggered and rUK is leaving for 100% true, definite, really really, no second referendum, no parliamentary vote blah blah. That the EU will announce it's position re an independent Scotland. I also think that it's highly improbable that their position will be to tell Scotland they can't remain in the EU. I do not know what the deal would be.

No they won't.
There is nothing else to add. They just won't. They don't need more hassle than they have at the moment, and sorry to tell you this but if Sturgeon starts thinking she can push her agenda over the top of brexit then May, the EU and every other major economic power will have her shoved back in her box in no time at all.

I could be wrong but Sturgeon seems very confident in pushing the EU position for someone expecting to be told to get tae after risking calling another ref in order to stay in.

You are wrong. She's playing you for mugs. She knows she has no window before brexit so she has to keep the idea burning, alongside the hope that the end deal isn't going to be acceptable to the Scottish public.
Unfortunately we all know that it will be.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I would say at article 50 it's too early, you won't know what the outcome of negotiations will be. So there won't be as clear a choice as in 2014, then again perhaps that's the tactic.

It won't be immediately after Article 50 and again, no one knows yet what intentions are regarding the single market etc. Maybe Sturgeon on her EU travels knows more than we do, Marr said in his Sunday Times piece that she has allies there ( whatever that means in reality ). However, it should be pretty clear soon after Article 50 what the UK Govt is planning, and also what the EU is willing to concede. There's a two year window and if it's going to be gone for.. it'll probably be sooner rather than later. Definitely the very little pro indy media there is in Scotland and groups all seem to be gearing up for the sooner.

ps that's a pic of Salmond wearing pink for a cancer charity eons ago. But Angry Salmond isn't actually him lol. It's a parody which we all loved in 2014 on twitter. Just thought I'd say so in case you think Salmond is turning into Eddie Izzard.

Shakethedisease

mrginge wrote: »

No they won't.
There is nothing else to add. They just won't. They don't need more hassle than they have at the moment, and sorry to tell you this but if Sturgeon starts thinking she can push her agenda over the top of brexit then May, the EU and every other major economic power will have her shoved back in her box in no time at all.

You are wrong. She's playing you for mugs. She knows she has no window before brexit so she has to keep the idea burning, alongside the hope that the end deal isn't going to be acceptable to the Scottish public.
Unfortunately we all know that it will be.

This is just your opinion mixed in with a lot of wishful thinking. You've got nothing concrete to back it up with any more than I do. And at least I was honest about it. :cool:

Sturgeon's already drafting the next referendum legislation. If you want to take that as a sign that her only intention is to 'keep the idea burning', then go ahead.

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Scotland isn't independent though. The EU isn't going to reveal it's hand until there are formal talks regarding membership.

Announce their intentions towards a possible independent Scotland remaining in the EU. They'll either want Scotland to stay or they won't. How hard can it be to indicate/hint/warm welcome to Sturgeon in Brussels for talks which one.

She certainly seems pretty confident anyway, and she's known for being far more cautious than her predecessor.

mrginge

Shakethedisease wrote: »

This is just your opinion mixed in with a lot of wishful thinking. You've got nothing concrete to back it up with any more than I do. And at least I was honest about it. :cool:

Sturgeon's already drafting the next referendum legislation. If you want to take that as a sign that her only intention is to 'keep the idea burning', then go ahead.

My assessment is based on observing and understanding the priorities facing the EU and UK, alongside the historic reluctance of the former to get involved in domestic issues or take any action that makes life difficult for itself unless it cannot be avoided.

There is no 'wishful thinking' because quite simply it's nothing to do with me whether you vote to leave the UK. I would rather you didn't, but if your leaders wish to continually pursue that policy and you keep voting them in then all the best.

Your view however is based purely on long held political bias and is born out of a small scale protest background that suddenly thinks it can play with the big boys. Stamping your feet and shouting a lot isn't going to get you anywhere in that environment.

Shakethedisease

mrginge wrote: »

My assessment is based on observing and understanding the priorities facing the EU and UK, alongside the historic reluctance of the former to get involved in domestic issues or take any action that makes life difficult for itself unless it cannot be avoided.

There is no 'wishful thinking' because quite simply it's nothing to do with me whether you vote to leave the UK. I would rather you didn't, but if your leaders wish to continually pursue that policy and you keep voting them in then all the best.

Your view however is based purely on long held political bias and is born out of a small scale protest background that suddenly thinks it can play with the big boys. Stamping your feet and shouting a lot isn't going to get you anywhere in that environment.

My assessment is just as good as yours. I watch Scottish politics closely and was the first to point out here via the polls at the tail end of the last referendum campaign, that the SNP vote re Westminster intentions seemed to be looking like moving very sharply up. No one took any notice though.

I can only expand on my own experiences and observations at the present time, mixed with the facts in front of me and they are this :- Nicola Sturgeon has put into motion the calling of a second referendum. The EU has said neither Yay or Nay to Scotland remaining in the EU should it become an independent country. However, she seems remarkably confident to build a case for a second referendum which she, the SNP as a whole and the Green party who have just launched their own independence drive... ( why would the Greens do that now at this point in time ? ).. on the primary basis that Scotland should not be taken out of the EU when Scotland voted to remain.

Nothing is done and dusted yet. And if the UK stays in the single market things could well die down again. But what is clear is that there are ducks getting set in a row for another vote should Brexit not go to the Scottish Governments liking and completely regardless of current polling. All the stamping of your own feet and shouting negate none of the above no matter what anyone's personal biases are.