The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

This very targeted approach worked for the Conservatives in May.

I work online running a forum of my own, so I know all about false emails etc. I'm sure the SNP have techs that are far advanced than I am at weeding them out. All political parties have their own means of id'ing real live voters according to area, occupation etc etc. I'm sure this will be fed into that alongside the registered voters list.

I really doubt false id's are much of a concern when checked against the electoral roll.

I ask out of ignorance (a normal situation for me)

is it legal for a political party to access the electoral roll for party political purposes?

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

This very targeted approach worked for the Conservatives in May.

I work online running a forum of my own, so I know all about false emails etc. I'm sure the SNP have techs that are far advanced than I am at weeding them out. All political parties have their own means of id'ing real live voters according to area, occupation etc etc. I'm sure this will be fed into that alongside the registered voters list.

I really doubt false id's are much of a concern when checked against the electoral roll.

Again I appreciate that, but data and databases are 'mah thang'.

I'm what some would call a data monkey.

Data validation, quality and integrity are issues I study continuously. There is nothing on there to stop fraudulent submission.

As I stated earlier the best they can hope for is to cross reference against the electoral roll, or a similar database of peoples. Then you're presented with the problem of deciphering who is the legitimate individual if multiple opinions have been submitted under that individuals name and address, presumably with different email addresses.

You might say 'Ah well just email them to see if it's them'. If I signed up as you, your name, your address and supplied an email address I control, it doesn't work as a form of ID verification.

Then you might say 'Ah, but what about IP address tracing'. Well that can work, people from outside of Scotland would certainly need to use a VPN in order to make it look like they're in Scotland. As far as I'm aware there are 'HideMyA$$' VPN servers in Glasgow, Aberdeen and Perth, possibly more. People within Scotland would clearly have an easier time with this issue. But the basic point is that people can quite easily pretend to be in Scotland when they're from anywhere in the world using the VPN's.

But then there's another question around IP tracing, particularly within Scotland, what if someone filled in the survey legitimately from a different computer location, say internet cafe, wi-fi location, 3G or 4G location, or even borrowing someone else's computer (such as the elderly). You could potentially be barring thousands of legitimate survey results on the basis of IP tracing. So that's not a good method of identification either. You might be able to use the MAC addresses of the machines if you're capturing that information, but then you get to problems with communal devices and devices legitimately shared between individuals.

Lets say there's a collection of unionists who know the names of groups of independence supporters. Or even vice versa. Once you have the name (Facebook, plenty of pages I've seen where these people congregate), you can find the postal code using 192.com, make up your own email address and submit spurious responses to the survey, skewing the result in a particular direction. That then brings you back to the dilemma earlier of determining who is the legitimate individual. You cannot determine that from the limited information they have asked for.

So do you take all results regardless? Allowing the results to be skewed one way or the other. Or do you try to weed out the fakes, which I've just explained, you cannot do effectively if the fraudsters know what they're doing (or read this post).

I feel as though on this particular issue I'm qualified enough to suggest that they've got this wrong, and it is indeed open to fraudulent submission.

So if you do cross reference the data, it's only slightly flawed, you may not have details of everyone in Scotland. If you don't cross reference and take it as is then it's hugely flawed.

Edit: Hence my call for them to sack their IT employees, give me a job on a fair whack to 'not get stuff wrong' and give me a gold plated civil servant pension, which I certainly won't get where I am

TrickyTree83

CLAPTON wrote: »

I ask out of ignorance (a normal situation for me)

is it legal for a political party to access the electoral roll for party political purposes?

I'm not sure about that.

I presume not due to data protection actually. If they've managed to build up their own database, or purchase data from someone who has built up this information when unwitting people leave the tickbox checked - or don't check it in some circumstances - who have unknowingly given permission for their details to be shared then it's possible.

Your average postal worker, Hermes, UPS, DHL, DPD, <insert name here> delivery driver will have sufficient information to impersonate people on this survey. It doesn't take much to make a mockery of something like this.

islandannie

Well what I find so ridiculous and almost childlike about this SNP listening excercise initiative is that it`s akin to an athlete asking his closest competitor to divulge the reason and strategy which enabled him to beat me last time.

No problem Tsarina Nicola I`ll fess up my secrets so you can have a better chance of beating me next time.
It really is that simple and boy the SNP are stupid if they think no voters will hand over this information,simply because why should we undermine our own aspirations?

It really is about time the majority of us no voters started determining the issues of when any other referendum should take place after all democratically we won hands down.

islandannie

Here are the list of qualification of our Finance minister.
The man that will formulate the finiancial strategy for 5 million Scots.


Mr Mackay has been the Member of the Scottish Parliament for Renfrewshire North & West since 2011.

He was appointed as Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Constitution in May 2016 having previously served as Minister for Transport and Islands and Minister for Local Government and Planning.

Mr Mackay is currently SNP Business Convener (Chairman of the Party), responsible for chairing Conference, the National Executive and the management and administration of the party.

Elected to Renfrewshire Council in 1999 at the age of 21, he was the youngest male councillor in Scotland at the time. He won three successive ward elections to become Leader of Renfrewshire Council in May 2007, taking the SNP from opposition to lead the administration for the first time. He became a national figure in local government leading the SNP group at COSLA (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities) 2009-2011.

Personal Interests:
Reading, running, going to the gym
Paisley Fairtrade Partnership

Professional Memberships:
CND
Amnesty International
Education:
Kirklandneuk Primary School.

Renfrew High School

Never mind a degree in economics,Not even a maths higher.
We are in serious trouble.

Shakethedisease

>>>> Moving on from that detailed, yet pointless bio of one Scottish MSP..

The #SNP are polling at 52% in Holyrood and at 55% in Westminster. They definitely don't need media stories to grow support...

Oh and May and Co are totally clueless about what Brexit means and they run the UK. Inspired such confidence today Farage is all for throwing his hat back in the ring.

elantan

Do you mean the finance minister whose illustrious cv includes towel folding ? ... deff best to move on from him

Shakethedisease

Have any of you ( aimed more at the pro indy types here ) been following that twitter thread today that popped up regarding GERS ? Hothersall started it with McDougall and it went on from there, still going on but whoever @SpecpartAGLtd is... he's demolishing the GERS figs piece by piece.

Leanne I know you might be interested as it's along Ivan McKee lines. Threads here I think if you can access it.

https://twitter.com/SpecPartAGLtd/status/773075202423025664?lang=en-gb

Dr Craig Dalzell The smoking gun - pg103 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/539809/Public_Spending_Statistics_July_2016_consolidated_-_revised.pdf …
Scotland revenue - £53,567bn
Scotland expenditure - £55,695bn

SpecialistPartnersAG

It tells you Revenue is £53.5bn approx and £55.5bn is spent in Scotland. The rest is spent by WM - nominal

Blair McDougall LOL. So your argument rests on the idea Scotland wouldn't have pensions or welfare.

SpecialistPartnersAG Yes it does. The £55.5bn includes pensions and unemployment benefit etc. I can confirm this if you like?

SpecialistPartnersAG GERS states what is spent IN Scotland. It clearly gives the LA, SG and UKG spend here. The rest is external.

£3.85bn of GERS costs are 'accounting adjustments'. Seriously?!?

SpecialistPartnersAG Interestingly yes. Much higher than....UK portion surprisingly and 13.9% of UK total.

Meme creators on it already. I don't usually like posting meme's but in essence this is the entire premise of quite a long thread.



Anyhoo, caused a bit of a stir on twitter. Thought others might be interested in reading through. There do seem to be a lot of discrepancies between GERS and the UK Treasury figures somewhere along the way if those figures are correct.

elantan

Yeah I followed it ... was a guid laugh .. hothersall and mcdougal were trying it on the other day as well. .. theI arguement didn't last long, I remember my 8 hour debate with Hothersall well lol

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Have any of you ( aimed more at the pro indy types here ) been following that twitter thread today that popped up regarding GERS ? Hothersall started it with McDougall and it went on from there, still going on but whoever @SpecpartAGLtd is... he's demolishing the GERS figs piece by piece.

Leanne I know you might be interested as it's along Ivan McKee lines. Threads here I think if you can access it.

https://twitter.com/SpecPartAGLtd/status/773075202423025664?lang=en-gb

SpecialistPartnersAG

Meme creators on it already. I don't usually like posting meme's but in essence this is the entire premise of quite a long thread.



Anyhoo, caused a bit of a stir on twitter. Thought others might be interested in reading through. There do seem to be a lot of discrepancies between GERS and the UK Treasury figures somewhere along the way if those figures are correct.

all so very reasonable

so why aren't the polls showing over 60%?