The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

elantan

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

The Barnett formula is a subsidy. That doesn't mean you're too poor to manage on your own at all. I've never said you're too poor to manage on your own, you brought that up. Managing on your own is different to sustaining the level to which you've become accustomed.

What I said was what makes you think an independent Scotland will be richer and better off outside the Union?

According to your first paragraph you think Scotland should be independent just because you think all countries should be independent, ignoring that your country is actually Great Britain since the act of Union. But anyway...

That doesn't show that Scottish people will be richer and better off does it?

Scotland is a country, if we cant agree on that simple basic fact then really is there any point in trying to agree on anything?

Have i ever said i think we will be financially better off independent?


i do seem to remember saying becoming independent will be hard and for a while we will be worse off financially but that eventually things should settle, i estimated 10 years or so, and have also stated previously ( maybe not in this thread) that i reckon my husband and myself would be slightly worse off in an independent Scotland, that didnt stop either of us wanting independence though

AnotherJoe

elantan wrote: »

i do seem to remember saying becoming independent will be hard and for a while we will be worse off financially but that eventually things should settle, i estimated 10 years or so, and have also stated previously ( maybe not in this thread) that i reckon my husband and myself would be slightly worse off in an independent Scotland, that didnt stop either of us wanting independence though

So would this independent Scotland you want be outside the EU?

If not, please explain what "independent" means because otherwise its exactly like being in the UK except on a bigger and more autocratic scale with far less chance to influence anything.

elantan

personally speaking i fancy an EFTA style arrangement with the EU, but I will take indy from UK and stuck in the EU for a few years till we can vote on that for starters, I reckon in an indy Scotland we will have a lot of decisions to make, ie do we still want a royal family? do we want to be part of the EU, you know all the things a normal country decides for themselves.

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

Scotland is a country, if we cant agree on that simple basic fact then really is there any point in trying to agree on anything?

Have i ever said i think we will be financially better off independent?


i do seem to remember saying becoming independent will be hard and for a while we will be worse off financially but that eventually things should settle, i estimated 10 years or so, and have also stated previously ( maybe not in this thread) that i reckon my husband and myself would be slightly worse off in an independent Scotland, that didnt stop either of us wanting independence though

Scotland is no more a country than England.

England is not independent, neither is Scotland, therefore the country is Great Britain. That's just law and reality.

So you'll be voting for independence to be worse off in the hope that in 10 years things 'should' settle.

Just wanting to be clear.

elantan

no ... Britain was England and Wales, ( why do people forget the Welsh) when Scotland joined in the act of union it became Great Britain ... you could say Scotland put the great into Britain i spose

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

personally speaking i fancy an EFTA style arrangement with the EU, but I will take indy from UK and stuck in the EU for a few years till we can vote on that for starters, I reckon in an indy Scotland we will have a lot of decisions to make, ie do we still want a royal family? do we want to be part of the EU, you know all the things a normal country decides for themselves.

So if the UK has an EFTA style deal you'd still vote to leave the UK and Great Britain in order to make decisions on reserved powers, being in EFTA and being poorer for approx. 10 years lowering the standard of living for Scottish people.

So you won't be better off, you won't be richer, you'll just have decision making powers over the reserved powers.

elantan

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Scotland is no more a country than England.

England is not independent, neither is Scotland, therefore the country is Great Britain. That's just law and reality.

So you'll be voting for independence to be worse off in the hope that in 10 years things 'should' settle.

Just wanting to be clear.

it may not take 10 years, I spose watching rUK with Brexit will help us have a better idea.

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

no ... Britain was England and Wales, ( why do people forget the Welsh) when Scotland joined in the act of union it became Great Britain ... you could say Scotland put the great into Britain i spose

Hence why I said Great Britain and not Britain.

I'm well aware of the differences.

elantan

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

So if the UK has an EFTA style deal you'd still vote to leave the UK and Great Britain in order to make decisions on reserved powers, being in EFTA and being poorer for approx. 10 years lowering the standard of living for Scottish people.

So you won't be better off, you won't be richer, you'll just have decision making powers over the reserved powers.

sheesh everything takes time,do you not have any patience? i will say though knowing the Scots they will make it happen quicker and better, they are kinda determined in that sense ...

AnotherJoe

elantan wrote: »

personally speaking i fancy an EFTA style arrangement with the EU, but I will take indy from UK and stuck in the EU for a few years till we can vote on that for starters, I reckon in an indy Scotland we will have a lot of decisions to make, ie do we still want a royal family? do we want to be part of the EU, you know all the things a normal country decides for themselves.

All the things a "normal country decides for themselves" are massively restricted when you are in the union, whether thats the UK or the EU. If the best you can dredge up is the royals, thats not a whole heap really. Most of the things a country does decide for themselves are constrained by economics as well. You cant decide you'd doublespending on the NHS (for example) if you can afford it.

If the people of Scotland wish to vote for independence, good on them. I just dont understand how the majority (and it seems you are not one one) want at the same time to leave one union on the grounds its restrictive,but then join another ! The whole argument from the SNP has been "oh now UK is coming out of EU, that is grounds for us to vote again because we want to be in EU."

But that then hands your independence to Brussels instead of London. Eh????