The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

elantan

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I know, I just watched BBC Reporting Scotland flashing up a big flashy infographic on their report... stating that Scotland could join the Euro. Missing out any critera for joining it and that it would take years even if that was what Scotland did.

Ramping up the crap again. Wheeling out Gordon Brown again... must be some private polling being done.

Aye I did wonder that myself ... when u see big Gordo wheeled out you know something must be up lol

I do like the idea of us having out own currency and bank though, every good independent country needs them

elantan

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Some good economic reasons that don't make you poorer would be a good start. Pointless having a currency when you're going to leave some people without a pot to defecate in.

You say that like it's not already happening under WM ... lol ... do u believe we're in the land of milk and honey or something ?

AnotherJoe

CLAPTON wrote: »

the only way that scotland - UK trade would suffer is if the iscotland decided to impose tariffs on the rUK.

there is no possibility that rUK would impose tariffs on scotland except in retaliation for action from iscotland.
Remember it's the EU that imposes import tariffs on the rest of the world (except the 28 EU countries) and not the UK.

How could an iScotland raise tariffs ? It wouldn't be in their power to do this.

CLAPTON

AnotherJoe wrote: »

How could an iScotland raise tariffs ? It wouldn't be in their power to do this.

a sovereign independent country can impose tariffs.

AnotherJoe

CLAPTON wrote: »

a sovereign independent country can impose tariffs.

That doesn't describe any country in the EU though, and it was my understanding that an iScotland would be in the EU.

Maybe I've misunderstood but I thought EU membership was a fundamental part of Scottish "independence" ? Not that I know how it's proponents square that circle but what the heck.

CLAPTON

AnotherJoe wrote: »

That doesn't describe any country in the EU though, and it was my understanding that an iScotland would be in the EU.

Maybe I've misunderstood but I thought EU membership was a fundamental part of Scottish "independence" ? Not that I know how it's proponents square that circle but what the heck.

that would be for the people of iscotland to decide :
it does seem illogical to 'stand on their own' feet for the first time in 300 years than then give it away immediately but that ignores the hatred of the English.

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

You say that like it's not already happening under WM ... lol ... do u believe we're in the land of milk and honey or something ?

Can you disprove that being in the UK is not by putting forward fiscally sound alternatives?

Can you show how you will improve on 11% trade with the EU to offset what will be lost in trade with the rUK in the event that Scotland is given a referendum due to no single market access and Scotland votes to leave the UK?

The onus is on the nationalists to prove they can do better, isn't it?

If the stated aim is that the best you can do is just a little worse than what you've currently got, but you'll be able to say "we did it ourselves", what's the point?

So... lets hear it, since something obviously convinced you.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Can you disprove that being in the UK is not by putting forward fiscally sound alternatives?

Can you show how you will improve on 11% trade with the EU to offset what will be lost in trade with the rUK in the event that Scotland is given a referendum due to no single market access and Scotland votes to leave the UK?

The onus is on the nationalists to prove they can do better, isn't it?

If the stated aim is that the best you can do is just a little worse than what you've currently got, but you'll be able to say "we did it ourselves", what's the point?

So... lets hear it, since something obviously convinced you.

Why bother. None of the Leave lot did 8 or so weeks ago and did you really post that you thought the UK had made a mistake ? I reckon the SNP/rekindled Yes groups will offer all sorts of reasons for independence economically and they will be pretty honest about it too. But they'll say that Brexit is far worse. Not just economically, but in terms of not isolating Scotland off, and looking outwards.

Anyway, do you want to know a story ? Way back in 2011 most voting in Scotland were Devo Maxers. I was one myself along with consistent polling showing 60% + of the country were too. We all hoped it would be put on the ballot paper. Alas not, as it would've won and Cameron knew it.

But once one starts thinking and finding out about Devo Max and what it means, one starts to think about independence too and what that would mean. For 45% of us on Sept 2014 independence seemed the better option for a myriad of individual reasons... However, there was a Vow made at the last minute which seemed very much at the time, to be proposing Devo Max after all.

Scottish Labour are now looking like going down the route of proposing Devo Max to their own members and voters. Previous hard line unionists. I hope they too will start to research what Devo Max means as lots of us did back in 2011, because it will introduce them gently to the previously unthinkable notion of independence itself. Most of us concluded back then that it might be best just to rip the plaster off quickly and cleanly. I hope soon that Scottish Labour will conclude the same ( once they get rid of the last vestiges of NuLabour from the leadership their party ). I don't really think that most of England are even that bothered anymore if Scotland stays or goes. They certainly can't stand the sight of Scottish voted MP's in Westminster something which will once again become all too clear in the run up to the next GE.

As for trade, that will be up to the EU if Scotland remains within it. Far too many unknowns right now for anyone to have definitive answers for you. The UK doesn't even know what that means economically yet.

TrickyTree83

But why? Still no one has said why they will be richer or why they're prepared to be poorer.

That's the nub of it. Everything else is just peripheral. There must be an overwhelming reason to vote to be poorer or there must be some 'magic beans' that means you'll be richer. I'm just asking which and what that reason is.

If that cannot be answered then it's just misguided feelings driving you all towards a poorer future.

elantan

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Can you disprove that being in the UK is not by putting forward fiscally sound alternatives?

Can you show how you will improve on 11% trade with the EU to offset what will be lost in trade with the rUK in the event that Scotland is given a referendum due to no single market access and Scotland votes to leave the UK?

The onus is on the nationalists to prove they can do better, isn't it?

If the stated aim is that the best you can do is just a little worse than what you've currently got, but you'll be able to say "we did it ourselves", what's the point?

So... lets hear it, since something obviously convinced you.

No the onus is on the unionists to prove staying is the best bet... what's the point in staying ? You've had our economy now for over 300 years and we're 15Bn in the red so you keep telling us, you keep telling us how much we need you and yet staying as part of a union is not serving us well... I see people going to food banks, I've worked in soup kitchens where people are starving due to tory austerity. i see people struggling to survive. i see people struggling to survive in England as well, i would say in many cases its harder for them, and i ask myself what is WM doing for them? Wm is throwing people to the dogs and i want nothing else to do with it, Ive had enough.

I see the nhs in Scotland doing much better than the nhs down south I see our kids getting a better education than down south ... these are the few things we can control and we do a much better job at it than when WM is in charge,


So really the onus is to prove why should we stay ? What's so wonderful about the union that we should stay ??? What is worth sacrificing being independent for? Making our own way in the world