The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Been reading the Express have we ?

Oh dear, did I strike a nerve to provoke such a facile comment?
This thread is in danger of turning into DT.

I don't think I have ever read The Express - certainly not within the last five years. Though at least I CAN read.
Below are just a few examples of the rebuff of Scotland's suggestion to join the EU.
The BEST being that Scotland could apply following independence; how long does anyone think THAT will take?

https://www.eureporter.co/frontpage/2016/08/16/brexit-scotland-is-europes-new-balkans-not-wanted-on-eu-voyage/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36656980

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/28/nicola-sturgeon-heading-to-brussels-for-talks-with-european-parl/

BTW, as my name there on the left would suggest I am NOT Welsh.
I live and work among Scots, travelling widely throughout Scotland.I am thus only too well aware of the range of sentiment inside Scotland itself.

TrickyTree83 Quote:
Originally Posted by CLAPTON
all great stuff

which begs the question : why aren't the polls showing 60-70% in favour of iscotland.
why isn't nicola demanding a new ref now?

Because it's not the case, it's just a perception, a nationalist one.

Indeed so - though it does seem that there are some (esp. those outside Scotland) that refuse to accept that possibility.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

all great stuff

which begs the question : why aren't the polls showing 60-70% in favour of iscotland.
why isn't nicola demanding a new ref now?

The polls will never show 60% before a second campaign. However they're sitting at 50/50 ( with two out of the last three over 50% for independence )... and Brexit hasn't even begun yet.

Nicola would be best waiting until Brexit and it's consequences really start.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The polls will never show 60% before a second campaign. However they're sitting at 50/50 ( with two out of the last three over 50% for independence )... and Brexit hasn't even begun yet.

Nicola would be best waiting until Brexit and it's consequences really start.

why will the polls never show 60% before another campaign?
surely you are not relying on a new battery of untruths to persuade the gullible?

Shakethedisease

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Oh dear, did I strike a nerve to provoke such a facile comment?
This thread is in danger of turning into DT.

I don't think I have ever read The Express - certainly not within the last five years. Though at least I CAN read.
Below are just a few examples of the rebuff of Scotland's suggestion to join the EU.
The BEST being that Scotland could apply following independence; how long does anyone think THAT will take?

https://www.eureporter.co/frontpage/2016/08/16/brexit-scotland-is-europes-new-balkans-not-wanted-on-eu-voyage/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36656980

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/28/nicola-sturgeon-heading-to-brussels-for-talks-with-european-parl/

BTW, as my name there on the left would suggest I am NOT Welsh.
I live and work among Scots, travelling widely throughout Scotland.I am thus only too well aware of the range of sentiment inside Scotland itself.

No, no nerve struck. Just that you came out with the flea in ear comment which sounds 'Express-eque'.

I don't know what sent home with fleas in ears looks like, but am pretty sure they don't look too much like this.

Michael Roth MdB Verified account ‏@MiRo_SPD A very warm welcome to Berlin! Fruitful talks with #Scotland's First Minister @NicolaSturgeon, a committed European

Incidentally when Sturgeon met Roth the newspapers and media were falling over themselves to say he was a very, very minor official. Yet when he said something about the UK having a 'special status' last week. He was suddenly a very, very important man.

I saw his conversation on twitter after that. Worth noting then next time he's quoted as saying the UK can have special status.

@MiRo_SPD Beware your words being twisted by Brexiteers… https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/765548814027657216 …

Michael Roth MdB ‏@MiRo_SPD Aug 16
@jonworth @DanielJHannan Let me be very clear: out is out. No cherry picking. Free movement of labour is indispensable

A_Medium_Size_Jock

I take that to mean then that there is no proof of the statement: "A Indy Scotland would be welcomed by Europe and the world, keen to turn its face from xenophobic Little England and it's all powerful inward looking pensioners." from Ruggedtoast to which I originally referred?
Especially since (over two months ago now) Alyn Smith made his plea - to which the first photo refers.

Of course, those with seats at The European Parliament as in the photo above DID applaud.
Which MUST be the same as granting Scotland EU membership, right?
As good as, eh?
Talk about desperation.

As for the meeting with Roth, well why not look at how Sturgeon was received by German media?
You will struggle to find any.
Deutsche Welle ........ tbh made it look like it is; a desperate Sturgeon looking for European promises which are not forthcoming.
Added to which they say "According to an opinion poll published by YouGov on Saturday, however, the result does not appear to have shifted Scottish public opinion in favor of independence particularly, with 53 percent of participants saying they would prefer to remain a part of Britain, even if it leaves the EU as planned."

Which is perhaps exactly why Mr Roth was so careful with his wording: "I hope that the UK finds a way forward that will benefit Europe as a whole in the end".
"The UK" note; NOT "Scotland".
See, I too pay close attention to what Roth said.

http://www.dw.com/en/scottish-first-minister-nicola-sturgeon-talks-brexit-in-berlin/a-19461605

Shakethedisease

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

I take that to mean then that there is no proof of the statement: "A Indy Scotland would be welcomed by Europe and the world, keen to turn its face from xenophobic Little England and it's all powerful inward looking pensioners." from Ruggedtoast to which I originally referred?
Especially since (over two months ago now) Alyn Smith made his plea - to which the first photo refers.

Of course, those with seats at The European Parliament as in the photo above DID applaud.
Which MUST be the same as granting Scotland EU membership, right?
As good as, eh?
Talk about desperation.

As for the meeting with Roth, well why not look at how Sturgeon was received by German media?
You will struggle to find any.
Deutsche Welle ........ tbh made it look like it is; a desperate Sturgeon looking for European promises which are not forthcoming.
Added to which they say "According to an opinion poll published by YouGov on Saturday, however, the result does not appear to have shifted Scottish public opinion in favor of independence particularly, with 53 percent of participants saying they would prefer to remain a part of Britain, even if it leaves the EU as planned."

Which is perhaps exactly why Mr Roth was so careful with his wording: "I hope that the UK finds a way forward that will benefit Europe as a whole in the end".
"The UK" note; NOT "Scotland".
See, I too pay close attention to what Roth said.

http://www.dw.com/en/scottish-first-minister-nicola-sturgeon-talks-brexit-in-berlin/a-19461605

Well you have your views and I have mine and I've already posted extensively earlier in the thread over the EU. Feel free to read them. I also think that Sturgeon even being 'warmly welcomed' ( twice since the Brexit vote ) in the EU by many is 110% improvement since 2014. Angus Robertson ( fluent German speaker ) and Alyn Smith linked to many enthusiastic articles at the time as I read them on my twitter feed. No one knows what the EU will do about an iScotland. But it's a good bet that Scotland will be staying. The EU have nothing to gain by punting out an entire country that's just voted to stay in. Everyone's waiting for Article 50, then we'll all know where we stand.

It is amusing however to see how much status Roth seems to gain and lose depending on who he's talking to is it not. No special status though for the UK. Out is out.

The Yougov poll is just one poll. The two before had support for independence above 50%. And blimey, you'd have thought after all those Brexit polls predicting a Remain vote, that taking just one poll and extrapolating this as an absolute indicator of future votes in a referendum.... people would've learnt by now that it's the overall trend over a period of time which is important. Over the course of the first referendum campaign of 3 years.. there were only two polls EVER that put independence support in the lead, and one of them was very early on and dismissed as an outlier. One in three years. Since 2014 there have been many = Trend.

I see the Labour big beasts are starting to wake up and smell the coffee. Henry agrees with Ruggedtoast.

Asked about the Brexit negotiations, Henry McLeish said: “I think we’re slowly running out of red lines, and I’m slowly running out of patience. My Britishness is actually being squeezed out. I’m in a position now where I could vote for independence.”

McLeish said his changed view arose partly from Brexit: “That was like a bereavement for me. I think it was the most monumentally stupid decision this country has taken since 1945.
“That said, Scotland and England’s politics are diverging. There’s a growth of hard-headed nationalism in England, there’s xenophobia, there’s racism, there’s an ugly politics developing that we’re not part of.
“I think that for Scots it’s not just the European Union issue. It’s other issues that tend to cement the idea that maybe part of the union is not where we want to be. And being part of the EU is much more internationalist, much more ambitious, much more where a modern Scotland could be.”

http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2016/08/uk-nations-are-growing-apart-says-former-scottish-first-minister

Brown wants to rip up the Smith Commission, start again and do FFA. In order to preserve the Union. Vow Mk 3

Brown said Holyrood should be given powers currently controlled by the EU. Those could include control over all territorial fisheries, agriculture and social rights, as well as the European convention on human rights and EU academic programmes such as Erasmus. At the same time, a UK-wide constitutional convention was needed to investigate new structures, including a UK senate for the nations and English regions.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/29/gordon-brown-house-of-lords-elected-senate-brexit-uk-scottish-independence

Desperate times for Scottish Labour. It's all very much changed days since they blocked everything they could in the Smith Commission don't you think ?

elantan

Labour labour labour ... it's like they want to destroy themselves ...

elantan

Alan Rodern from the daily fail ... the shop is gonna run out of popcorn if they keep this up

Shakethedisease

elantan wrote: »

Alan Rodern from the daily fail ... the shop is gonna run out of popcorn if they keep this up

Sheesh. I've just read a tweet to Hothersall from someone resigning their membership is disgust. One can only imagine how well this will play to the gallery.

elantan

Yep I read it, also current labour counsellors are being suspended #labourpurge2. .. Kezia's days are numbered as well .... it's getting to the sublime stage now, they need to get their act together for when we're independent ...