The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

mwpt wrote: »

Your view is consistent and fairly aligned with my own. I do not support an independent Scotland because I don't think nationalism trumps well being in their case. It seems that many Scots (not all) who want independence simply do not care about the economic arguments or any potential pitfalls after independence. It is independence first and foremost and dealing with consequences later.

But I was referring to certain leave EU voters who now argue vigorously against granting Scotland the same right to vote to leave a union that they themselves have just enjoyed in the form of the EU referendum. The same certain posters argue on technicalities because the general moral sense of their case is bankrupt. They are hypocrites.

I assume you've got me in that group of people. I voted to leave the EU since I believe that the UK is able to do better outside of it. I've often stated that freedom of movement isn't a big deal for me. Freedom of labour would be better but I'd be equally happy with EEA/EFTA so long as we're able control our own trade deals which was the biggest issue for me.

Because of this I also believe Scotland will be worse off in the EU and particularly out of the UK union.

The two viewpoints are not mutually exclusive.

mrginge

mwpt wrote: »

But I was referring to certain leave EU voters who now argue vigorously against granting Scotland the same right to vote to leave a union that they themselves have just enjoyed in the form of the EU referendum. The same certain posters argue on technicalities because the general moral sense of their case is bankrupt. They are hypocrites.

Which posters are you referring to my good man?

zagubov

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The EU isn't going to give any green lights. Spain will veto any fast track entry. Scotland will have to go through the same qualification process as everyone else. To start with Scotland needs to build the infrastructure to underpin independence. How far has that progressed?

The same Spain that gets 25% of its fish in Scottish EU waters? Better start some serious raindancing classes down there to encourage crops to make up the missing food.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

And again you fail to recognise that the question asked on the ballot paper was whether or not the UK should remain in the EU or should it leave.

It said nothing, absolutely nothing about Scotland.

Why is this absolute fact ignored?

Scotland didn't vote to remain in the EU, Scotland voted to keep the UK in the EU. The UK comprises of more citizens that just Scotland, although your views appear to contradict that.

Unfortunately just before the EU referendum in June, there was a Scottish General Election in May. We mandated the SNP on the below.

We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.

Since you're so keen to point out that the Tories were promising an EU ref in theirs ( incidentally, the Tory manifesto was after the 2014 vote ). And the above doesn't even mention Westminster, it talks of the Scottish parliament.

C'mon now, you must know the game is up. The union ( UK ) is on it's last legs. Article 50 will set a series of events in motion that will kill it off and Theresa May knows it too.

Shakethedisease

zagubov wrote: »

The same Spain that gets 25% of its fish in Scottish EU waters? Better start some serious raindancing classes down there to encourage crops to make up the missing food.

It gets better than that..

Interestingly, during the last independence referendum Rajoy was asked three times in an interview with El Pais newspaper whether he would veto Scotland, and three times he refused to reply. He refused to reply because he didn’t want to encourage Scottish independence by telling the truth.

Mariano Rajoy comes from Galicia, and represents the city of A Coruña in the Spanish parliament, the Cortes. The mainstay of the local economy is the fishing industry, and big fishing interests are the main funders of Rajoy’s own local party. The Galician fishing fleet depends on its access to Scottish waters in order to feed Spain’s enormous appetite for seafood, and any attempt by Spain to veto Scottish membership of the EU would threaten that access. Rajoy would then find that his local party’s bank balance was as empty as the fish counter in a Spanish supermarket. He’s not going to let that happen.

https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2016/06/25/an-argument-as-rank-and-rotten-as-a-two-year-old-fish/

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

@Shakey - your remark of the UK not being able to ignore a Referendum are laughably naive; if the SNP try to do that they will run into difficulties. There are so many ways to counter that tactic, including agreeing with the conditions that ..............

But note I say IF,.

What exactly do you mean by the above string ? If there's a referendum held and Scotland votes to leave the UK, are you saying that Westminster will just carry on as if nothing has happened ? Because I don't think the Scots will.......

But I'm not sure I follow you about 'difficulties'. Could you expand ?

Shakethedisease

Theresa better head to NI next...

#BREAKING Taoiseach Enda Kenny has said the Government and the EU must prepare seriously for the prospect of a border poll. More to follow

(Irish unity ref)

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

What exactly do you mean by the above string ? If there's a referendum held and Scotland votes to leave the UK, are you saying that Westminster will just carry on as if nothing has happened ? Because I don't think the Scots will.......

But I'm not sure I follow you about 'difficulties'. Could you expand ?

No. Actually I think I'll do an elantan on this one, watch if it happens and see if it pans out as I think it would; Probably not with popcorn though - filthy habit.

March on Shakey, the word "Lemmings" comes to mind for some reason.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Unfortunately just before the EU referendum in June, there was a Scottish General Election in May. We mandated the SNP on the below.

Yeah, that's great. The only type of referendum they can call is an advisory. They still do not have the power to secede, that's not changed.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Since you're so keen to point out that the Tories were promising an EU ref in theirs ( incidentally, the Tory manifesto was after the 2014 vote ). And the above doesn't even mention Westminster, it talks of the Scottish parliament.

Really? What's this then?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21148282

I'd like to draw your attention to the date.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

C'mon now, you must know the game is up. The union ( UK ) is on it's last legs. Article 50 will set a series of events in motion that will kill it off and Theresa May knows it too.

I don't believe it's on its last legs. I believe the EU is in dire trouble and is more likely to fall apart. What events will kill off the UK which are a consequence of article 50?

The only risk to the UK is Scottish nationalism. Since its resurgence it's been completely poisonous for the UK as a whole. Even Sinn Fein is less poisonous, they keep their issues in Northern Ireland these days instead of spreading it across the UK's mass media unlike the SNP do.

Edit:

Just wanted to pick you up on the quote from the SNP manifesto.

"We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will."

I'd like to draw attention to:

"We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum"

This wasn't sanctioned by Westminster, it's a Scottish parliament manifesto.

The powers to hold the referendum in 2014 had to be temporarily loaned to the Scottish parliament in order for it to happen. You must know this. So whilst they believe they should have the right to hold another independence referendum upon material changes in circumstances since 2014, they still don't have the right and as we've already concluded the absolute best they can do is an advisory referendum without getting the nod from Westminster.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

No. Actually I think I'll do an elantan on this one, watch if it happens and see if it pans out as I think it would; Probably not with popcorn though - filthy habit.

March on Shakey, the word "Lemmings" comes to mind for some reason.

The sentence 'head in the sand' comes to mind for me to be honest. There's a reason May scurried up to Bute House two days after becoming PM. And it wasn't because she was there for the 'not bothered/popcorn'.

She at least, if you don't, recognises that the UK is in danger of splitting up over the result of the EU vote. She wasn't in Bute House for fun.

Jog on string. You were referring to force if needs be. That's what it sounded like when you termed 'SNP difficulties'. You should just say so if that's not what you meant.