The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

.string.

@Shakey - good to see back. In this forum malarkey there is always a concern if people are absent that health or something has intervened.

I look forward to learning what the latest Collective party line has become.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

Didn't the EU leaders already tell Ms Sturgeon to go away shortly after the Leave vote?

No.

The parliamentary floor leader of Germany's Social Democrats, Thomas Oppermann, said on Friday he would welcome Scotland as a member of the European Union if it were to become independent.
"The Scots have made clear that their place is in Europe and if Scotland gains its independence in the end and again joins the European Union, then that would not balance out the loss for Great Britain but I would warmly welcome the Scots in Europe," Oppermann told reporters in Berlin

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-germany-scotland-idUSKCN0ZA1NI

Scotland and even Northern Ireland would be welcome to remain members of the EU according to Manfred Weber, a top MEP and key ally of German chancellor Angela Merkel.

Speaking to reporters on Friday morning, Mr Weber criticised the decision for Britain to leave but added: ‘On the Scottish level: to go the other way, it is up to them. Europe is open to new member states, that is totally clear. Those who want to stay are welcome in the European Union.'”

https://next.ft.com/content/7bb5752e-73a2-3a4d-859c-b1c4497d9ba1

I and my party believe that it would be unacceptable for Scotland to be treated as a normal candidate country should it seek to remain as a member of the EU. It currently implements all EU laws. It manifestly would not need to be reviewed for its standards of governance and ability to implement EU laws. It has a strong administration, a distinct legal system and an absolute commitment to European ideals.

Scotland is strong enough to advocate for itself, but Ireland should be its friend and demand fair play should it seek to remain in the EU.”

http://archive.is/WITGI

The Spanish Foreign Minister Jos! Manuel Garcia-Margallo expressly denied in 2012 that Spain would veto the membership of an independent Scotland:

“‘If in the UK both parties agree that this is consistent with their constitutional order, written or unwritten, Spain would have nothing to say, just that this does not affect us. No one would object to a consented independence of Scotland.’

He said the independence of Kosovo was different because it was based on a “unilateral decision” and admitted the Spanish position would have been different if it had been agreed between Belgrade and Pristina.”

ttp://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/304495/Spain-will-not-veto-an-independent-Scotland-joining-EU

La sortie de la Grande-Bretagne doit être conduite et n!goci!e sans d!lai afin de ne pas ouvrir une longue p!riode d’incertitude dont nous ferions les frais. Dans le même temps, l’Union Europ!enne doit affirmer clairement qu’elle reste ouverte aux Ecossais et aux Irlandais du Nord s’ils venaient à s’en donner les moyens.

(translation) The departure of Great Britain should be conducted and negotiated without delay so as not to open a long period of uncertainty which would cost us. At the same time, the EU must make clear that it remains open to the Scots and Northern Irish if they were to provide the means.”

http://www.jclagarde.fr/europe-la-lettre-remise-a-francois-hollande/

“Slovak leader promises help with velvet divorce
The European Union’s next president has offered to help broker the divorce between Scotland and the rest of the UK should voters elect to dissolve the Union over disagreement on Brexit.

Robert Fico, the prime minister of Slovakia, who is due to take over the EU’s rotating presidency on Monday, said his diplomats would help to negotiate an amicable separation modelled on the so-called velvet divorce that resulted in the break up of Czechoslovakia in 1993 if Scotland decides to leave the UK in order to stay in the EU.”

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/slovak-leader-promises-help-with-velvet-divorce-r6h

This bloke is just coming up with an opinion and let's face opinions are just like bottoms: everyone has one and most of them stink

I'd be very surprised to see Scotland encouraged to vote for independence to get a place in Europe. Can you really see all 27 European leaders getting together to promise a place in the EU for Scotland should they vote to leave the UK? I honestly can't think of a possible way that could or would happen. It's nuts.

What mechanism do you both see being employed to agree that Scotland could become part of the EU and then that decision being communicated to Scottish voters? You'd need the unanimous support of EU leaders with no general elections that could overturn an EU Government in between the referendum being announced and held plus you'd need the support of the UK Government in holding said referendum, a UK Government that would be in the middle of probably the most complex negotiation process ever undertaken.

It just won't happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL2DH-nKBeA

It will. If Theresa May can take the UK out of the EU off the back of an advisory non-legally binding referendum. Do you really think that they could stop Scotland holding an advisory non-legally binding referendum to do the same ? The Scottish Govt won't need an Article 30 this time round should it come to that. Can't have double standards now can we.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

@Shakey - good to see back. In this forum malarkey there is always a concern if people are absent that health or something has intervened.

I look forward to learning what the latest Collective party line has become.

Thanks. Had a lovely family holiday in first Spain, then the French Pyrenees.

I think you already know what the latest party line is.

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Can't have double standards now can we.

This is the latest line from the SNP is it, a bunch of never weres, minor Premiers plus Ms Lagarde apparently supporting Scottish independence.

Seriously, nobody cares about the Scots and as things stand Scotland has no chance of independence in Europe.

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

... If and when Article 50 is invoked, the EU will more than likely come out with possible deals for Scotland, there will be a referendum very shortly afterwards. But nothing will or can happen until Mrs May presses the button ( if she ever does ).

It is all a matter of timing:

When or if discussion will take place on social deals for Scotland alone would take place.

When or if the Scottish population want a referendum (maybe minor point for the SNP but an important one)

When or if a legal referendum might be sanctioned by the UK

When or if the EU are prepared to discuss what you want them to discuss

Plus a few others

I think your lot, lost in your plotting, tend to forget that Scotland is not a country with a track record of living within its means, both of which feacts prevent any national grouping from having meaningful negotiations.

In my view the best you can hope for is a referendum when the two options are fully on the table i.e. when the Brexit negotiations are complete and Parliament is asked to approve them. That would be an honest milestone at least so that Scots could choose with the full facts on the table and not be asked to jump over another cliff into the unknown.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Thanks. Had a lovely family holiday in first Spain, then the French Pyrenees.

Know the region well. Any indications of a push for independence?

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

No.

Yeah, Tusk did for certain. Although unofficial meetings have taken place, France has ruled out negotiating with Scotland and so have Spain.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-germany-scotland-idUSKCN0ZA1NI

States it requires independence. Which would not come before Brexit, the time it will take to untangle the Union and the rest of the UK isn't going to be told when to negotiate with Scotland.

https://next.ft.com/content/7bb5752e-73a2-3a4d-859c-b1c4497d9ba1

Refers to Scotland as a new member state. Everyone realises what that entails, as do you I imagine.

http://archive.is/WITGI

Ultimately meaningless, like JC coming out in support.

ttp://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/304495/Spain-will-not-veto-an-independent-Scotland-joining-EU

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/304495/Spain-will-not-veto-an-independent-Scotland-joining-EU FTFY. In 2012, really? What about what's been said in 2016? It was the opposite.

http://www.jclagarde.fr/europe-la-lettre-remise-a-francois-hollande/

She's head of the IMF. As I recall they don't get a vote on Scotland joining the EU?

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/slovak-leader-promises-help-with-velvet-divorce-r6h

This link doesn't work. He's offered to mediate, great! And what?

It will. If Theresa May can take the UK out of the EU off the back of an advisory non-legally binding referendum. Do you really think that they could stop Scotland holding an advisory non-legally binding referendum to do the same ? The Scottish Govt won't need an Article 30 this time round should it come to that. Can't have double standards now can we.

Absolutely cannot stop Scotland holding a referendum of its own. It's not legally binding and won't do jot to the constitution of the UK. That's the legal position, it's quite black and white.

If you want to talk about double standards why don't you address:

Nicola Sturgeon urging pro-independence Leave supporters to vote to Remain so they can get another crack at the vote?

The agreement by the Scottish and UK governments to respect the decision of the 2014 independence referendum?

.string.

For reflection, a few years from now, in an iNatland as winter sets in.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

This is the latest line from the SNP is it, a bunch of never weres, minor Premiers plus Ms Lagarde apparently supporting Scottish independence.

Seriously, nobody cares about the Scots and as things stand Scotland has no chance of independence in Europe.

Well stop posting on this thread then.

Sturgeon knows which way this will go. She's exploring all options before Article 50 is triggered. But there's really no way Scotland will be able to stay ( note stay, not reapply) in the EU without voting for independence first.

However, she's very neatly at the moment boxing all the other Scottish political parties into a corner, most notably Scottish Labour. Once all avenues have been explored and only independence would keep Scotland in the EU, then they'll have to decide which way to jump. EU or UK.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Well stop posting on this thread then.

Sturgeon knows which way this will go. She's exploring all options before Article 50 is triggered. But there's really no way Scotland will be able to stay ( note stay, not reapply) in the EU without voting for independence first.

However, she's very neatly at the moment boxing all the other Scottish political parties into a corner, most notably Scottish Labour. Once all avenues have been explored and only independence would keep Scotland in the EU, then they'll have to decide which way to jump. EU or UK.

They won't be able to stay.

However even if the EU made agreements to transfer membership the UK will conclude article 50 before the Union is broken up. So Scotland as part of the UK will be taken out of the EU as things currently stand.

You need a legally binding referendum to do it in the required time frame. May has said you're not getting one.

After article 50 where will UK government priority lie, negotiating with the EU or with Scotland on the breakup of the Union if a referendum was held, and if Scotland voted for independence?

Untangling 40 years of union in 2 years or untangling over 300 years of union in less than 2 so Scotland can remain?

Please, where is your position not full of holes, explain it to me because it just seems ridiculous.