The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Pure speculation surely? According to polls you use to defend your position the majority of people polled do not favour a 2nd indy referendum!

So how can your insights about the political landscape of Scotland be representative when the majority of people in those polls disagree with your view on actually trying to achieve independence?

That was before Brexit old chap. Even I was against a referendum in the very near future then.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Speaking of which:
https://www.englishwhisky.co.uk/
nothing is for ever


[Waits patiently for Shakey to reach for her Whisky Bucket and breath deeply]

Can't stand whisky. Even the smell gives me the boak. I'll stick with the vodka thanks.;)

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Tromking wrote: »

Australia is one of sixteen countries keen to talk about free trade with the UK apparently.

Not entirely surprising given they're already in negotiations with the EU for a free trade agreement...

So Scotland won't have to choose between remaining in the EU/Single Market and a free trade deal with Australia.

We'll have both.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

That was before Brexit old chap. Even I was against a referendum in the very near future then.

Actually it was from your post-brexit polls.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I can't reply properly as it would be quote within quotes and it's really messy to read.

So I'm going to condense this down for you. It doesn't matter what you or I think. But all the signals coming from the Scottish Govt ( which includes the Greens, Labour and Lib Dems ) is that this Brexit result has changed things.

The SNP want to stay in the EU.
Scottish Labour wants to stay in the EU
The Scottish Greens want to stay in the EU
The Scottish Lib Dems want to stay in the EU.

Scottish voters want to stay in the EU by a large margin. ALL of the parties above have a political duty to those they represent to persue remaining in the EU by whatever means necessary. Scottish Labour for instance are now advocating full fat federalism, as are the Lib Dems. Scottish Greens and the SNP might go along with that.. but the signals coming from the EU themselves, are that only with independence would Scotland remain within the EU.

Theresa May and Nicola Sturgeon are on a collision course whatever happens next. Even if I was a fully paid up unionist Conservative voter, it's as plain as day to see whatever your political persuasion. You need to accept that now. You also need to accept that 62% of the Scottish electorate, from all political persuasions from the Greens to those that normally vote Conservative are fully behind her on this one.

Neither the SNP nor the Scottish electorate are at fault when it comes to the Brexit vote. But they do have a duty to represent what they feel is in Scotland's best interests. That may not be staying in the UK.

To me it looks as if Theresa May looking for a 'UK wide approach' before hitting the Article 50 button is scared of what will happen next. And not just constitutionally regarding Scotland and NI. I'm beginning to wonder if she'll go through with it at all to be honest.

So rail and wail all you like. The Scots won't be leaving the EU quietly, and it's highly questionable if they'll be leaving it at all. The same goes for NI. If England/Wales want to stop trade flowing between Scotland/England as well as start from scratch negotiating trade deals with every other single country in the world, then by all means go for it. And good luck with the job/economic situation that will arise from it.

3 hrs agohttp://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14626959.SNP_s_summer_independence_drive_to_launch__within_weeks_/

They voted to keep the UK in the EU. Not to keep Scotland in the EU. That is a political interpretation.

What was the question on the ballot paper?

If the SNP dare to tell the truth about the choice they're proposing to put to the Scottish people opinions will shift dramatically away from "must stay in the EU at all costs" to "well actually it's a rather stupid idea" given then sheer weight of evidence against breaking away from the UK.

The EU single market doesn't trump the UK market when it comes to Scotland. I would assume that argment only has sway in England where the majority of UK trade with the EU is seen.

And no number of platitudes from the SNP about independence is going to change the facts.

mwpt

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

The Scottish nationalist arguments for independence are hollow and do not stand up to questioning. It was the same in 2014 just with different questions.

But what business is that of yours? Now that you have your particular lines in the ground territorial independence from a union you disliked, it is not time to stand in the way of others who favour another set of lines in the ground and independence from a union they dislike.

TrickyTree83

mwpt wrote: »

But what business is that of yours? Now that you have your particular lines in the ground territorial independence from a union you disliked, it is not time to stand in the way of others who favour another set of lines in the ground and independence from a union they dislike.

Just like leaving the EU, the breakup of the UK affects everyone in the UK.

Agree?

In the same way people from outside the UK had their say on the EU referendum, surely people within the UK but outside of Scotland also have a horse in this race and the absolute balls that the SNP and their supporters peddle needs to be called out.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

the absolute balls that the SNP and their supporters peddle needs to be called out.

Sounds like the leave campaign for the EU referendum.

TrickyTree83

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Sounds like the leave campaign for the EU referendum.

I do not disagree with that at all, I think I said earlier that both EU campaigns are on par with the SNP.

baldelectrician

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The D'Hondt voting system. The SNP did so spectacularly well in the FPTP section, that the list system made up the difference in Labour/Conservative/Green/Lib Dem MSP's.

Being up 6% in the constituency vote, and down 2% on the list vote ( with many second votes going to Greens ), was enough for the system to kick in and rebalance with Labour and Conservative seats. Majority governments in Holyrood are flukes.

I was talking to someone about just this voting system recently


It has been mooted that the SNP could NOT stand in the list in certain areas (areas where they are likely to get in on FPTP) thus allowing other parties (non-SNP affiliated ones) to scoop up the list seats.


Think about it- if the SNP get 90% of the constituency seats and then other YES affiliated parties mop up the 48% of the pro-SNP plus 20% of the pro Indy votes then you could be looking at the next Scottish Parliament having a 70% pro indy majority.