The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Thrugelmir

Originally Posted by Herzlos View Post
It depends on your bubble I guess. The pro IndyCar protests drown out the anti, by orders of magnitude. I know a few people who've switched No to Yes, but none the reverse.

That's because the silent majority use their time more wisely. Biding their time and only expressing an opinion what it actually counts. Nothing like social media to portray a misleading view.

Shakethedisease

molerat wrote: »

So performing badly is OK as long as it is not as bad as a the English NHS ?

That old chestnut. After two pages here ripping the SNP and the Scottish NHS to shreds.. it seems only fair to introduce a bit of context. The English NHS is in dire straits and performing way below the Scottish one. Patient satisfaction in Scotland is well above UK as a whole levels.
Look in before you look out perhaps.

Satisfaction levels with the Scottish health service sit at 78%, with 31% saying there are “very satisfied”, nearly half of Scots (47%) “quite satisfied” and 13% dissatisfied. This rises to 82% overall satisfaction for people with children but falls to around a quarter (74%) for those living in the north of Scotland.’

https://stv.tv/news/politics/1421917-four-in-five-scots-satisfied-with-the-health-service/

The latest UK-wide survey by Nat Cen paints a very different picture. See these key points:

• Public satisfaction with the NHS overall was 57% in 2017 – a 6 percentage point drop from the previous year. At the same time, dissatisfaction with the NHS overall increased by 7 percentage points to 29% – its highest level since 2007.

The latest yearly figures no longer break the details down for some reason. Probably because the Scottish NHS puts the other three to shame. But I think it's pretty clear what the overall trend is. Scotland has the best performing and highest NHS satisfaction figures in the UK. Most of it down the the SNP's management. As much as the media try to rip holes in it in order to taint the SNP and successive Health Ministers ( the latest trying to get the Health Minister to resign over a matter when she wasn't even the Health Sec ). People who use the service in Scotland are overall quite happy with it.

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

That's because the silent majority use their time more wisely. Biding their time and only expressing an opinion what it actually counts. Nothing like social media to portray a misleading view.

No. You're wrong I'm afraid. It's not social media colouring views. It's proper real live polling and expert analysis.

9th August


BREXIT is behind a definite shift in support for Scottish independence, with Remain voters the key group swinging behind Yes, the country’s leading pollster has said. Professor Sir John Curtice said a poll this week showing a majority of decided Scots voters now back independence reflected a wider pattern.


Conducted by Tory peer Lord Ashcroft after Boris Johnson became Prime Minister, it found 52-48 support for Yes, the first survey since March 2017 with such a result...All of the movement last year has occurred among Remain voters in Scotland. Leave voters haven’t shifted.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17825706.remain-voters-driving-swing-yes-says-john-curtice/


The trend is real and not social media driven. Remain voters are swinging from No to Yes. You going to argue with John Curtice ?

Arklight

Nats wail and gnash their teeth. Proud Scots are turning from the false promises of independence! They believe in the NHS, and the Union.

Tromking

Shakethedisease wrote: »

England won't be ok. You've forgotten to factor in the billions lost due to Brexit. Too many here reasoning Scottish independence against 2014 factors that are no longer in play. England won't be 'fine'. Andrew Neil as usual isolates Scottish figures providing no context and no Brexit scenarios.


I'm afraid against the possible damage Brexit will cause economically, Scottish independence looks far more attractive to those who weren't persuaded in 2014. No/Remain voters are the fastest growing No to Yes group in all polling conducted.

Also the English NHS is in a far, far worse state than the Scottish one ( which is the best performing in the UK at the moment ). The SNP have looked after it far better than the Tories have the English one. Longest ever waiting lists on record down south, staff leaving in droves...was always thus when the Tories are in charge of it. Truly terrible management from 2010 onwards. I wouldn't be throwing any stones in glass houses when it comes to the NHS.

The more pertinent question when comparing the relative performance of our 'NHS's' is what you get for your money. If I were a Scot, I'd be bitterly disappointed that my extra £1600 per head in public sector funding was not giving me tip top health provision.
Instead Scots are competing with austerity blighted England on whose is worse. Not surprisingly for a Nat, merely being able to say we beat England is enough.
If Brexit is a disaster (big if!) a future UK with or without Scotland will simply rejoin. The Brexit scenarios I've seen have at worst predicted a relatively short recession and the rUK won't be compounding a possible negative Brexit experience like Scotland will by opting to leave a Union where 60% of it trade is done.
Scottish independence is a thoroughly stupid idea despite all your talk of Tories and Brexit.

Shakethedisease

Tromking wrote: »

The more pertinent question when comparing the relative performance of our 'NHS's' is what you get for your money. If I were a Scot, I'd be bitterly disappointed that my extra £1600 per head in public sector funding was not giving me tip top health provision.
Instead Scots are competing with austerity blighted England on whose is worse. Not surprisingly for a Nat, merely being able to say we beat England is enough.
If Brexit is a disaster (big if!) a future UK with or without Scotland will simply rejoin. The Brexit scenarios I've seen have at worst predicted a relatively short recession and the rUK won't be compounding a possible negative Brexit experience like Scotland will by opting to leave a Union where 60% of it trade is done.
Scottish independence is a thoroughly stupid idea despite all your talk of Tories and Brexit.

I'm not saying I'm content with the Scottish NHS 'just' being better than Englands ( I work in it ). I'm saying that service users themselves are overall far more satisfied with provision than elsewhere in the UK. There's a reason for that isn't there.

Scotland will leave the UK. The political union which holds it together has nothing going for it anymore. Labour and Conservative parties are dying in Scotland and even Ruth Davidson has given up justifying it, mainly because she cannot. All that's left are threats, fear and promises of doom should Scotland ever vote to leave. This in itself is not enough to sustain the UK as it is any longer. Should Boris win on 13th Dec this will be a huge tipping point. If so Nicola Sturgeon will have more to worry about from Scots voters by NOT holding a referendum asap than worrying about any getting any Section 30.

Herzlos

Thrugelmir wrote: »

That's because the silent majority use their time more wisely. Biding their time and only expressing an opinion what it actually counts. Nothing like social media to portray a misleading view.

None of them have been on the internet.

Curiously, the only strong No voter I know votes based on his football team.

Herzlos

Tromking wrote: »

The more pertinent question when comparing the relative performance of our 'NHS's' is what you get for your money. If I were a Scot, I'd be bitterly disappointed that my extra £1600 per head in public sector funding was not giving me tip top health provision.

I'm actually quite happy with our nhs and quite happy to pay more tax to have it. As a higher rate tax payer I'm already doing so (41%).

Instead Scots are competing with austerity blighted England on whose is worse. Not surprisingly for a Nat, merely being able to say we beat England is enough.

Didnt you bring the NHS as part of your project fear?
I'm just pointing out that our view of the nhs is different to yours and we value it. I do feel sorry for people stuck using a crippled English NHS but you guys keep voting the Tories in.

If Brexit is a disaster (big if!) a future UK with or without Scotland will simply rejoin. The Brexit scenarios I've seen have at worst predicted a relatively short recession and the rUK won't be compounding a possible negative Brexit experience like Scotland will by opting to leave a Union where 60% of it trade is done.

Those are for BRINO? Lite best I've seen is Mogg with 50 years to start benefitting, and pots of dont knows. You might never recover and we'll take the worst of it unless we go our own way and rejoin the EU.

Scottish independence is a thoroughly stupid idea despite all your talk of Tories and Brexit.

I disagree.

Moby

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I'm not saying I'm content with the Scottish NHS 'just' being better than Englands ( I work in it ). I'm saying that service users themselves are overall far more satisfied with provision than elsewhere in the UK. There's a reason for that isn't there.

Scotland will leave the UK. The political union which holds it together has nothing going for it anymore. Labour and Conservative parties are dying in Scotland and even Ruth Davidson has given up justifying it, mainly because she cannot. All that's left are threats, fear and promises of doom should Scotland ever vote to leave. This in itself is not enough to sustain the UK as it is any longer. Should Boris win on 13th Dec this will be a huge tipping point. If so Nicola Sturgeon will have more to worry about from Scots voters by NOT holding a referendum asap than worrying about any getting any Section 30.

I agree with you on this but what about the border with England if a newly independent Scotland joins the EU?

The_Rainmaker

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Most of it down the the SNP's management.

Should rephrase that as "In spite of the SNP's management".