The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

mollycat

baldelectrician wrote: »

Let me explain my thinking...

We live in a parlimentary democracy

Parties publish manifestos

Parties publish their beliefs (such as supporing independence- or not doing so)

The population who can be bothered to vote do so

The Scottish Parliament is a proportional system

The Scottish Parliament has a majority of parties who support independence

The Scottish people (through the Scottish Parilament) wish to have a referendum

You don't (and I respect that)

So how many refrendums do we need- as many as Scots vote for through their directly elected parliament is the answer.

May I remind you of the 'promise' made by Better Together during the independence referendum.

So the agreement to a "once in a generation, you need to vote YES or your chance will be gone forever, referendum" was a lie then?

To join the EU any fantasy iScotland would need to implement austerity measures way beyond anything any modern day country has ever seen, (unlikely as EU would be mad to let a basket case economy like Scotlands join), OR, go it alone iScotland is bankrupt in less than a generation.

Never mind the facts though,the independence fanatics here and it's supporters from the leafy home counties, (who will watch the carnage unfold from afar), will continue to try and sell the gullible and vulnerable a ticket to hell whilst the majority of sensible Scots shake their heads at the madness of turkeys voting for christmas.

Keeps at least one of the posters here in a job though!

Herzlos

You could try using facts, but you'd probably struggle because I think it's pretty solid.


Does Westminster appear to value Scotland or hold it in contempt? The UK government is clearly England + some dregs. Whilst I view the Tory government as particularly dangerous, we don't get treated much better under Labour either.



Scotland and England seem to be pretty different politically too, so I actually think it's in Englands interests to get rid of us (if it wasn't for the money).

mollycat

Herzlos wrote: »

You could try using facts, but you'd probably struggle because I think it's pretty solid.


Does Westminster appear to value Scotland or hold it in contempt? The UK government is clearly England + some dregs. Whilst I view the Tory government as particularly dangerous, we don't get treated much better under Labour either.



Scotland and England seem to be pretty different politically too, so I actually think it's in Englands interests to get rid of us (if it wasn't for the money).

Disagree. I've got more in common with people from all corners of the UK than I do with the people who post their grudge fuelled nonsense on this board.

In what way do you think we should be "treated much better" by either Labour or the Tories", are the billions of £££s not enough?

The indy arguement is illogical, driven by scapegoat ideology and is seen by most Scots as a joke.

Enterprise_1701C

baldelectrician wrote: »

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At least a country can leave the EU when they want- the EU did not deny the UK a referendum.
Meanwhile Westminster are preventing Scots from a new referendum ..... the UK seems like the Hotel California- we can check out any time we want but can never leave.

Don't you think Westminster has enough to deal with at the moment? We need to get out of the eu first, get Brexit done. A while after that, when all the remainer forecasts have been proven wrong, then maybe Scotland can have yet another once in a generation referendum. As long as they pay for it. And it would be far more likely for them to get what they want if they allowed the rUK to vote too.

Don't forget you still need to sort out what you will do about a currency as you will need to set up a bank of last resort, you will need to pay back your part of the deficit, you will need to set up a mint unless you can find a way of buying money in, you will need to set up embassies throughout the world as you will no longer have access to UK ones, you will need to set up your own armed forces and your own border force. There are numerous other things that operate in the background that are provided by the UK at the moment and cost a fortune to run, good luck raising that sort of revenue.

Considering over half the Scottish population are on some form of benefits and only a limited number of those are devolved, the bill for benefits alone will grow massively.

For years on end the spend in Scotland has exceeded the take including the oil, austerity is going to bite hard if you get independence.

And yes, the attitude towards Scotland has changed, but that is purely down to people like Sturgeon and Blackford.

Their attitude towards the UK leaves an awful lot to be desired. You can only put up with someone constantly bleating that they are being badly treated for so long. Scotland are being treated with massive favouritism in the cash department, and they bleat that they don't have enough power, despite the fact that they can vote in UK affairs, have interfered in England only affairs, yet do not allow us to vote in Scotland only affairs. As far as I can see Scotland have it a lot better than England, we do not even have our own parliament, and it sticks in the craw that one way or another we had to stump up £414 million to build one for the ungrateful people of Scotland.

mollycat

Well said Enterprise 1701....you last sentence should read "for the minority of people in scotland who are ungrateful!

ps....Lot's of us didn't even want the pointless Scottish "government"

Dee_Best

Herzlos wrote: »

You could try using facts, but you'd probably struggle because I think it's pretty solid.


Does Westminster appear to value Scotland or hold it in contempt? The UK government is clearly England + some dregs. Whilst I view the Tory government as particularly dangerous, we don't get treated much better under Labour either.



Scotland and England seem to be pretty different politically too, so I actually think it's in Englands interests to get rid of us (if it wasn't for the money).

What a narrow-minded (and hence incorrect) POV.

Scotland (Population approx. 5.5 million) which by majority voted to remain has its own parliament with an ever-increasing amount of devolved power.
That's some "contempt".

London (Population approx. 9 million) also by majority voted to remain.
Their equivalent doesn't wield anywhere near the power in parliament as the Scots do, so London are obviously being held more in contempt than you Scots.

Enterprise_1701C

mollycat wrote: »

Well said Enterprise 1701....you last sentence should read "for the minority of people in scotland who are ungrateful!

ps....Lot's of us didn't even want the pointless Scottish "government"

Apologies mollycat, it is easy to forget that they do not speak for the majority of people in Scotland.

Herzlos

mollycat wrote: »

ps....Lot's of us didn't even want the pointless Scottish "government"

That pointless Scottish "government" is why we've got a better NHS than south of the border, free prescriptions, no hospital parking and so on.



I'm certainly happy we've got it, I just wish it had all the powers it was promised.

Tromking

Herzlos wrote: »

That pointless Scottish "government" is why we've got a better NHS than south of the border, free prescriptions, no hospital parking and so on.

I'm certainly happy we've got it, I just wish it had all the powers it was promised.

Herzlos, you do get that Scots are running a circa £10bn budget deficit every year don’t you? How do think that deficit is funded every year?
You may well remember that Holyrood was offered full fiscal autonomy by those nasty Tories a few years back, it was politely refused by the SNP because it meant less block grant from the U.K. Treasury and more having to raise money directly from Scotland and it’s people. I’ll let you guess which amount of money was greater.
Thankfully most Scots haven’t fallen for the SNP con-trick on the Scottish economy and realise that the pooling and sharing of the risks and rewards with 60 million other Brits is the preferred option.

Herzlos

I do, I also know that the UK deficit is about £32.3bn. I suspect some of the Scottish deficit is down to accounting.



You're (as far as I recall) happy for our economy to be hurt to leave the EU, so why is it so hard to understand that we're happy to take a hit to leave the UK? Doing that might even give us the levers to mitigate it.