The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Tromking

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You make it sound like rUK will not have another 27 hard borders to contend with. At least Scotland would only have the one ! rUK is looking at 28 of them. Be interesting to see how rUK deals with that.


You're in a little 2014 bubble here. Time it was burst. Scotland will have the same border with rUK the rest of the EU has. Or perhaps another way of putting it.. rUK will have 28 hard borders to deal with, including Scotland. Canada and the US manage it, I daresay Scotland will be fine too with just one. rUK on the other hand.. oh dear me. Carnage and chaos abound.

Loads of potential hard borders, but only one hard land border. Don’t forget it won’t be Scots in charge of whether the hard border exists or not, it’ll be Brussels. I wonder how many British firms in Scotland will relocate to the rUK to protect their access to the U.K. internal market, remind me how much Scottish trade is done with the rUK, over 60% I believe?
I get that for you border posts at Hadrians Wall will be a glorious symbol of independence from the hated English, I have a feeling for most Scots, it will be a complete abomination.

Tromking

Herzlos wrote: »

Conversely it's going to be great watching the Tories try to defend against iScotland by defending against Brexit.





There's no GFA equivalent so a hard border with England will be pretty easy to do. Essentially we'd be moving the border from UK-EU to Hadrians wall. We can have ferries running from Rosyth to Holland and Greenock to Eire in no time.



We may not even really need it unless England & Wales diverge too far from the EU (I'm fairly sure they won't).

Spoken like a Scottish resident with no personal long term affiliation with other Britons in our Union.

Shakethedisease

Tromking wrote: »

Loads of potential hard borders, but only one hard land border. Don’t forget it won’t be Scots in charge of whether the hard border exists or not, it’ll be Brussels. I wonder how many British firms in Scotland will relocate to the rUK to protect their access to the U.K. internal market, remind me how much Scottish trade is done with the rUK, over 60% I believe?
I get that for you border posts at Hadrians Wall will be a glorious symbol of independence from the hated English, I have a feeling for most Scots, it will be a complete abomination.

Given the choice between a border with rUK or EU/EFTA/EEA access I'm pretty sure unfettered EU Single Market access will win out. As for businesses flocking to rUK in order to maintain some kind of mythical 'internal' market.. one can only laugh at the idea. rUK will be tumbleweed central in terms of anyone or any business flocking there. It'll be the opposite way round so that rUK businesses can maintain EU access.

elantan

Hating the English Klaxon . ooooft they must be running out of new material and getting more desperate

Tromking

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Given the choice between a border with rUK or EU/EFTA/EEA access I'm pretty sure unfettered EU Single Market access will win out. As for businesses flocking to rUK in order to maintain some kind of mythical 'internal' market.. one can only laugh at the idea. rUK will be tumbleweed central in terms of anyone or any business flocking there. It'll be the opposite way round so that rUK businesses can maintain EU access.

There’s nothing mythical about the U.K. internal market, I believe 82% of U.K. businesses trade solely within it. If the current situation with the US is still in place in the event of iScotland, then unfettered EU single market access comes with a 25% tariff on Scottish whisky. That will go done well with one of Scotland’s biggest exporters. I get that you sincerely hope that the rUK becomes tumbleweed central but Scotland distancing from its biggest market and allying itself with the rUK’s new economic rival is fraught with risks. As well as losing all those thousands of U.K. state jobs that will repatriate themselves, hundreds of Scottish firms will also be tempted to locate themselves closer to their biggest customer base, no doubt doubly tempted by lower corporate tax rates the new buccaneering U.K. will use to compete with the EU. Don’t forget as an EU member Scotland will be adopting the EU’s new harmonised corporate tax rates, there will be no Scottish version of the Irish Celtic Tiger economy that currently gives Dublin an edge. As with oil prices, you’ll be choosing to leave just at the wrong time.

baldelectrician

Tromking wrote: »

Loads of potential hard borders, but only one hard land border. Don’t forget it won’t be Scots in charge of whether the hard border exists or not, it’ll be Brussels.

No, it will be the EU (including Scotland)- to see an example look at the way the EU has supported, backed up and been a generally good mate to Ireland ..... meanwhile Scotland (in the UK 'family of nations') have been ignored and basically told to sit down, shut up and 'eat your cereal'

I wonder how many British firms in Scotland will relocate to the rUK to protect their access to the U.K. internal market, remind me how much Scottish trade is done with the rUK.

I like a good laugh, meanwhile the scare stories of the droves of companies leaving Scotland to the UK post independence will be the opposite.
Many companies will look at Scotland more favourably post Indy as we will have full access to the common market.
UK market about 60 million, EU market about 500 million (with lots of trade deals the UK will not have post Brexit)

At least a country can leave the EU when they want- the EU did not deny the UK a referendum.
Meanwhile Westminster are preventing Scots from a new referendum ..... the UK seems like the Hotel California- we can check out any time we want but can never leave.

Herzlos

Tromking wrote: »

Spoken like a Scottish resident with no personal long term affiliation with other Britons in our Union.

Spoken like someone who's run out of argument.


I've got friends and family in England, I spend a lot of time working there, I'm pretty happy with English people though I can understand why the English have the reputation they do across the world.


I very nearly voted to Remain in the UK, for fear of difficulty trading with rUK, however I changed my mind. I view the Tories and Westminster as far more devastating. We're openly regarded as an inferior part of the partnership, merely a county. We don't actually have enough sway to get anything done. We're being brought out of Europe against our wishes. I absolutely prioritize having access to the EU market over the English market - it's 10 times bigger for a start.



If England wants to pull the curtains up and pretend the world doesn't exist, that's fine, but I don't want to be a part of that.

molerat

baldelectrician wrote: »

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Meanwhile Westminster are preventing Scots from a new referendum

How many do you want ? You lost last time, are we supposed to keep going until you get the outcome you want ?

baldelectrician

molerat wrote: »

How many do you want ? You lost last time, are we supposed to keep going until you get the outcome you want ?

Let me explain my thinking...

We live in a parlimentary democracy

Parties publish manifestos

Parties publish their beliefs (such as supporing independence- or not doing so)

The population who can be bothered to vote do so

The Scottish Parliament is a proportional system

The Scottish Parliament has a majority of parties who support independence

The Scottish people (through the Scottish Parilament) wish to have a referendum

You don't (and I respect that)

So how many refrendums do we need- as many as Scots vote for through their directly elected parliament is the answer.

May I remind you of the 'promise' made by Better Together during the independence referendum.

Tromking

Herzlos wrote: »

Spoken like someone who's run out of argument.

I've got friends and family in England, I spend a lot of time working there, I'm pretty happy with English people though I can understand why the English have the reputation they do across the world.

I very nearly voted to Remain in the UK, for fear of difficulty trading with rUK, however I changed my mind. I view the Tories and Westminster as far more devastating. We're openly regarded as an inferior part of the partnership, merely a county. We don't actually have enough sway to get anything done. We're being brought out of Europe against our wishes. I absolutely prioritize having access to the EU market over the English market - it's 10 times bigger for a start.

If England wants to pull the curtains up and pretend the world doesn't exist, that's fine, but I don't want to be a part of that.

Wow, how do you argue with that amount of manufactured grievance?
Voting to leave the UK to avoid Tory Governments is probably the least convincing of the independence arguments IMO. Most other regions of the UK would like the terms and conditions that Scotland enjoys as a key part of the Union and there is part of me that would love to see Scottish independence just to see the looks on Scots Nats faces as the grim realisation of jettisoning the Union hit home.