The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Thrugelmir

Sailtheworld wrote: »

What did you learn?

How fortunate we are to live in a longstanding democracy. That for Albanians national identity comes first and religon second.

Shakethedisease

Tromking wrote: »

No, it'll be fought on the same ground as last time.

No it won't.

The idea that last time round the Yes side did not invoke the anti-Westminster tropes in favour of making the positive case for independence is laughable.

The SNP were heavily criticised for their relentless positive camapigning last time. Many thought they were far too timid in taking the gloves off. The Yes campaign as a whole was conducted almost exclusively online since the media was so heavily skewed against independence. Online debate as we both know tends not to be very positive. Negative campaiging against Westminster will get the SNP much further, because the narrative is writing itself at the moment. Look at what happened a year or so back when Ian Blackford and the rest of SNP MP's walked out. SNP membership shot up overnight.The positive case for independence has been made over and over.

The SNP line as far as I can see is that Brexit will be bad for Scotland so vote for independence which will dwarf the negative economic effects of Brexit. Good luck with that one.

It's working ok so far. No's to Yes's are all EU remain voters who already think Brexit is going to be very bad economically. I also see Derek Mackay was advocating bringing and independent Scotland's pensions into line with the rest of the EU. There's a fair lot of pensioners who'll lap that up too.

Look the SNP know exactly what went wrong last time. They've had 5 years to come up with targeted independence messaging for the next one. Pensioners and EU remainers are obviously first on the list and rightly so.

Sailtheworld

Thrugelmir wrote: »

How fortunate we are to live in a longstanding democracy. That for Albanians national identity comes first and religon second.

Well worth the trip.

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

...
Look the SNP know exactly what went wrong last time. They've had 5 years to come up with targeted independence messaging for the next one. Pensioners and EU remainers are obviously first on the list and rightly so.

Don't you think the pro-Union crowd will have learnt from what went wrong for them last time too?

They would be daft not to.

Sailtheworld

The SNP must be hoping that the UK crashes and burns post brexit to try and sell the idea that leaving the Union and, maybe, joining the EU would be better.

I think brexit is going to be bad for the economy but not in a crash & burn way more in a way that economists spend months & years trying to compare a UK that didn't leave the EU with one that did.

Another almighty waste of money and time spent indulgently navel gazing.

Sailtheworld

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Look the SNP know exactly what went wrong last time.

They need an indy-bus with lies written on the side.

Or at least remove the photo of Nicola from the Sturgeon-copter.

BikingBud

Sailtheworld wrote: »

I think brexit is going to be bad for the economy but not in a crash & burn way more in a way that economists spend months & years trying to compare a UK that didn't leave the EU with one that did.

And isn't that the fundamental issue with academics, historians and the like. Reviewing the minutiae of decisions taken rather than looking up and forward.

Tromking

kabayiri wrote: »

Don't you think the pro-Union crowd will have learnt from what went wrong for them last time too?

They would be daft not to.

It shouldn't be too hard, get the Nats to give a number on the set-up costs of a 'new country' and ask them then how its going to be paid for. Get them to explain how they will replace the thousands of UK state jobs that will be repatriated down south.I'm sure the self inflicted devastation of RN shipbuilding in Scotland will go down well on the Clyde BTW. Get them to justify why British families used to being in the same country will now seemingly have to cross a hard customs border to visit each others homes. Get the Nats to explain how instead of being in receipt of circa £10bn from the UK Treasury to cover its budget deficit it will now be expected to bung a few billion to Brussels as a net contributor to the EU every year.
I'm not so sure when those pencils hover over the referendum ballot paper sometime in the future, that Scots will be thinking too much about nasty Westminster and the largely benign effects of Brexit on Scotland's economy.

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

Don't you think the pro-Union crowd will have learnt from what went wrong for them last time too?

They would be daft not to.

I don't think they have many arguments left to be honest. The two biggest drivers of No voters were fear of being out of the EU and pensions/pensioner worries.

The EU argument has gone. 2014 Labour voting pensioners are now no longer Labour voting ( see last 5 years election results ) . A good and backed up proposal to raise pensions to higher levels will win a few over I daresay. All that's left is 'the border'. But from what I've read the last few hours re NI and special deals the levels of anger in Scotland which would accompany such a deal would have many overcoming any such border 'fears'.

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I don't think they have many arguments left to be honest. The two biggest drivers of No voters were fear of being out of the EU and pensions/pensioner worries.
....

Any future Remain in UK campaign would use fear as a tactic. It's a powerful motivation to stick with the norm. It explains why my EU-Remain voting relatives chose that option.

An iScotland is the minority player in negotiations with rUK, just like the UK with the EU.

You have seen how that plays out, yes? It's unlikely to resolve quickly, and a socialist SNP will burn the cash with their uber-generous to all approach.