The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

loadsacash

.string. wrote: »

The SNP, not Scotland.

Oh - the SNP aren't Scotland?

Seriously though that is a good point! Nicola Sturgeeon thinks she is the voice of Scotland, however she is not!

Nicola Sturgeon is a politician who is trying to get the majority of Scots to back her policy which is Independence.

She is trying to drive a wedge between the people who want Independence that the people that want to remain part of the UK.

.string.

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

True, should have said SNP..

Sturgeon is complaining now because she was refused Foreign Office support for her trip to Belgium.

I personally am amazed she even thought the FO would provide support for a trip to the eu to talk up the idea of independance and the idea of Scotland joining the eu, especially when there is no referendum in Scotland's near future.

She has also claimed that it was clear in Brussels any further extension to the Brexit timetable beyond the October 31 deadline would be conditional on a General Election or second EU referendum, so that is another thing she is trying to influence, to my mind there is a good chance she was over there in part to influence their handling of Brexit and ask them to put conditions on any extension. Hopefully we will not need another one anyway, but she is complaining that we act badly towards Scotland, in the same breath she tries to betray the rest of the UK.

Oh the SNP love Referendums.

They were the party that proposed, in the HOC, that there should be another Referendum to ratify the result of the first referendum in the light of the result of negotiations.

I laughed when I saw that. The SNP are not as smart as they think they are.

OK, then. If anyone is daft enough to agree a new referendum in Scotland, it should follow at least the condition that another referendum is held to ratify the result of what would be very sticky negotiations with a seriously p******-off rUK.

I can think of other conditions as well.

For example that non UK citizens should not be entitled to vote on the break-up of the UK.

Another condition would be that Scots living in the UK would be able to vote.

Another would be negotiate and leave within 2 years, or the result of the Referendum would be null and void.

And of course the rUK should insist on establishing the timetable for the repayment of the Scottish share of the National Debt before discussions on trade relations can start.

I also think our experience has shown that these referenda are divisive and harm communities, so in line with an SNP proposal (commitment?) I would like a condition that there should be solid evidence that a 60/40 approval is achieved in a referendum before the established status quo is challenged in a referendum. Maybe that voter split should also be the criteria for changing that Status Quo.


That needed saying, but I don't really want to get dragged back into this thread for the time being; The Nats from Whinge World can dream of their Natland Theme Park all by themselves. So no more responses from me at lest for a while. But Hi to all my Scottish friends here.

mollycat

^^^^ Well said .string; 100% spot on. Thanks for that.

Arklight

There is no animal more inward looking, devoid of humour, and possessed of the thinnest skin imaginable, than the ardent nationalist.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Oh the SNP love Referendums.

They were the party that proposed, in the HOC, that there should be another Referendum to ratify the result of the first referendum in the light of the result of negotiations.

I laughed when I saw that. The SNP are not as smart as they think they are.

OK, then. If anyone is daft enough to agree a new referendum in Scotland, it should follow at least the condition that another referendum is held to ratify the result of what would be very sticky negotiations with a seriously p******-off rUK.

I can think of other conditions as well.

For example that non UK citizens should not be entitled to vote on the break-up of the UK.

Another condition would be that Scots living in the UK would be able to vote.

Another would be negotiate and leave within 2 years, or the result of the Referendum would be null and void.

And of course the rUK should insist on establishing the timetable for the repayment of the Scottish share of the National Debt before discussions on trade relations can start.

I also think our experience has shown that these referenda are divisive and harm communities, so in line with an SNP proposal (commitment?) I would like a condition that there should be solid evidence that a 60/40 approval is achieved in a referendum before the established status quo is challenged in a referendum. Maybe that voter split should also be the criteria for changing that Status Quo.


That needed saying, but I don't really want to get dragged back into this thread for the time being; The Nats from Whinge World can dream of their Natland Theme Park all by themselves. So no more responses from me at lest for a while. But Hi to all my Scottish friends here.

So lovely to see you again. I hope you are well ( and I am being sincere ). However your post above is simply irrelevant in the face of Brexit. And that's because you're breaking up the UK all by yourselves..

Sturgeon need to do nothing much other than sit back and watch disillusioned, regretful and heartsore once ardent No voters... realise that not many in Westminster give a flying toss about Scotland, unionists in Scotland or how they vote. They don't care. England and Brexiteers will gladly pay the price of losing Scotland if it means Brexit goes ahead. See Chris Deerin here ( arch unionist columnist) as an example.

It is rough wooing of a new and hateful kind, a just-you-sit-there-nice-and-quiet-me-old-china approach to constitutional management. What, then, do you think we’re going to do?

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/tories-would-now-rather-face-scottish-independence-lose-brexit

It's a painful realisation and lesson for a lot of them like Chris : but Nicola Sturgeon's majority in a second indy vote will come to her. No problem at all. :cool:



England and the Tory party have gone slightly bonkers. The Tory Party are about to elect Boris Johnson as PM, who'll come to an arrangement ie a No Deal Brexit, with Nigel Farage when the inevitable Vote of No Confidence happens shortly after BoJo is confirmed. Then there will probably be a General Election.


Tory/Labour wipeout in Scotland with the SNP standing explicitly and only on an independence/2nd ref manifesto. The SNP will win just about every seat and the Referendum Bill will be rushed through Holyrood within days. What will you do then ?

Enterprise_1701C

So you really expect us, as a country more than 10 times the size of Scotland, to turn around and cancel brexit to pacify Scotland? If it wasn't because of brexit Sturgeon would find another reason, maybe someone would breathe on her wrong or someone will not stock her shade of nail varnish, but either way she would find an excuse. She has already said that she wants another referendum whether we leave or not, and when she loses that one she will want another, and another. She is as bad as the eu.

Shakethedisease

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

So you really expect us, as a country more than 10 times the size of Scotland, to turn around and cancel brexit to pacify Scotland? If it wasn't because of brexit Sturgeon would find another reason, maybe someone would breathe on her wrong or someone will not stock her shade of nail varnish, but either way she would find an excuse. She has already said that she wants another referendum whether we leave or not, and when she loses that one she will want another, and another. She is as bad as the eu.

No of course not. No one expects England not to leave the EU. But Scotland needs to choose between going independent the EU/Single Market etc and staying in the UK. We can no longer have both so the electorate must be consulted.

Devolution is not compatible in any way with Brexit. The UK will negotiate trade deals as a state. Devolution will have to be rolled back considerably. Don't think we haven't noticed the new Scotland Office enlarged hub and 4000 employees ( Mundell posing with giant keys to the offices the other day ). Nor the sudden appearance in the newspapers of Tory MP's asking questions such as 'Is Holyrood really competent', 'Is Holyrood fit for Purpose' and 'We need to fund Scotland projects directly' ( by passing Holyrood ). We're not stupid.

Also the notion of Holyrood not going along with Westminster 100% is a relatively new thing. Only since 2007 and even then the SNP have been accused of being gradualists. I don't think Westminster have any idea what they'll do if Holyrood gives a flat 'No' to being told no second indy ref. Because Holyrood and the Scottish Parliament is about to do just that and tell Westminster to do one.

What'll happen then ? Oh and the shockwavees from that poll today above are reasonating widely. The Scottish twitterati and most commentators have all been totally floored by it.

Shakethedisease

Yep Tory Brexit destorying the UK. Is all coming home to roost.

Britain’s Next Prime Minister Has Probably Already Lost Scotland - Bloomberg
“There’s a definite shift in independence support,”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-18/britain-s-next-prime-minister-has-probably-already-lost-scotland

Scots Tory warning to UK members on poll: members need to remember ours is a party of the whole UK. It’s in the name. If Scotland becomes independent, there is no UK. No matter how badly people want Brexit, no..member should be prepared to turn their back on the UK

KennyFarq 9h9 hours ago Kenny Farquharson
How can Ruth Davidson claim her party is the true defender of the Union - her only real policy - when this is what her fellow members think?


IanDunt 9h9 hours ago Ian Dunt
I'm a Unionist. It's hard to look at this and not conclude that the Tory party is a threat to the national interest.


Kevin Schofield@PolhomeEditor 9h9 hours ago I think we can safely drop the ‘and Unionist’ bit from the Conservative Party’s name now.

The Scots Tories turned their back on every constituency in Scotland who voted remain. Now their party has turned their back on them. Karma.

Anyway as I said nice to see you again string but you're right not to get back involved in threads like these. You're a little behind on latest info.

mollycat

If you think the usual SNP "offence"; this time at the prospect of having a PM that is a buffoon, is a good reason for flushing the benefits of being within the UK down the toilet, then sorry, most Scots have much more sense and long term perspective than this.

Party politics is here today, gone tomorrow short term noise; constitutional destruction of the UK is forever, and harms everyone in Scotland, the worse off and the vulnerable all the more so. (AND for generations to come).

But of course as we both know, you already know this....difference is you don't care.

mollycat

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

So you really expect us, as a country more than 10 times the size of Scotland, to turn around and cancel brexit to pacify Scotland? If it wasn't because of brexit Sturgeon would find another reason, maybe someone would breathe on her wrong or someone will not stock her shade of nail varnish, but either way she would find an excuse. She has already said that she wants another referendum whether we leave or not, and when she loses that one she will want another, and another. She is as bad as the eu.

Agree with the sentiment within your post

But....Please, the distinction is important; the SNP/Sturgeon do not define nor speak for Scotland.

Most Scots are happy to respect democracy and accept the result of both 2014 and 2016 referenda.

Most Scots recognise the huge fiscal advantage of being part of the UK and appreciate our good fortune.

Most Scots recognise the false, manafactured grudge, the misplaced injustice and ease of offence presented by pro-nationalists for what it is. We despise it just as much as you do.

Don't let the people who post pro-independence propaganda here succeed in dividing fellow UK citizens where no division or injustice actually exist.