The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Enterprise_1701C

Only if it is approved by Westminster.



https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-independence-indyref2-before-2021-very-remote-1-4945069

"Gunn warned that as the power to hold legally-binding votes on the constitution is reserved to Westminster, the Scottish Government still faced significant hurdles if was to stage a meaningful referendum"

In another story, https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17686798.warning-over-impact-of-new-devolved-benefits-on-scottish-budget/

Would like to know how you would cope if you had to balance your budget in it's entirety, especially seeing as how your deficit is larger per person than the UK deficit.

And if you were to become independent and then if you were allowed to join the eu in your own right, therefore be subsumed into the eu making independence pointless, you would almost certainly be expected to contribute a large amount. You would have to commit to joining the euro, you know, that mechanism whereby the eu first bankrupt the country and then force them to remain in the eu as they are in debt for a long time and terrified to go it alone.

Shakethedisease

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Only if it is approved by Westminster.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-independence-indyref2-before-2021-very-remote-1-4945069

"Gunn warned that as the power to hold legally-binding votes on the constitution is reserved to Westminster, the Scottish Government still faced significant hurdles if was to stage a meaningful referendum"

None of the newspapers or media have caught on yet so I wouldn't bother quoting from most of them. Chris Musson from the Scottish Sun the other day was bleating on about how loooong it would take to get specific indyref2 legislation and three readings etc etc thorugh Holyrood. He, and the rest of the Scottish and UK media are apparently still blissfully unaware of what this Referendum Bill is actually designed to do.

At its heart, the Bill gives Scottish ministers the power to call a referendum, set a question and choose a date – subject to a single positive vote in the Scottish Parliament. To establish the legal basis for a poll under this new dispensation, there need be no tortured legislative process, no three stages of committee hearings and votes in Holyrood.

The Referendum Bill has been deemed within legal and legislative competence. A single vote in Holyrood is all that will be required to set an indy ref in motion. Date, question, franchise, everything.

Any challenge will be to MSP's and the Scottish Parliment's decision.

But Mike Russell’s proposals ingeniously disarms the UK government of its best weapon. In contrast with its treatment of primary Holyrood legislation, the Scotland Act gives the UK Government no fast track to the Supreme Court to challenge decisions of the Scottish Government.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/17672217.indyref2-sturgeons-clever-plan-will-wrongfoot-the-uk-government/


A challenge there will be no doubt of course. But it won't be over 'legal' referendum legislation. The media haven't cottoned on to much of it yet. Chris Musson and the Scottish Sun have some reading to do. The rest of your post ? Usual 'have to join the Euro' complete nonsense stuff. No point bothering with an answer since you're pretty much clueless on much of it and I don't want to have to start from scratch explaining basics like using the Euro to you.

Enterprise_1701C

Even Sturgeon realises she would need Westminster approval

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48053363

The simple fact is that Scotland cannot legislate on something that is not devolved to it.

Shakethedisease

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Even Sturgeon realises she would need Westminster approval

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48053363

The simple fact is that Scotland cannot legislate on something that is not devolved to it.

The SNP are playing you like a fiddles. The First Minister of Scotland needs Boris Johnson or any other top Tory or Tory PM to refuse a Sect 30 ! It'll be a huge boost to the indy support numbers. For reference see what happened to polling after George Osborne said Scotland couldn't use the £.

Nicola Sturgeon will indeed seek a Sect 30 and she'll be shouting about seeking one as loud as she can in multiple media outlets. But she'll be doing so in the full knowledge it'll be refused. Then she'll call and prepare to hold a Scottish vote under the new ( legal and with legislative competence ) Referendum Bill anyway.

The simple fact is that Scotland cannot legislate on something that is not devolved to it.

Referendums are devolved though. So your simple fact is wrong. Holyroods ability to legislate for referendums is now beyond doubt and it's actually legislating to hold one now. So am not sure what your point actually is ?

Wesminster and the new PM will be in a race against time to stop a vote happening via the Scottish courts. While at the same time Holyrood and the First Minister are racing to hold one asap in the event of a No Deal/Scotland out of Single Market Brexit. Under normal circumstances looooooooong and lengthy court battles taking months and even years would ensue.

But the truth of the matter is that neither side has the time for that. Nicola has to go for it and via the Referendum Bill now has the means to go for it and very quickly if necessary.

Mike Russell :- “Of course, should circumstances change, we would have the option of seeking Parliament’s agreement to proceed at an accelerated timetable.”

The new UK PM is going to have to find a way to stop it happening and equally quickly. I'm not sure how'll they'll do it to be honest since an immediate referral to the UK Supreme Court has been scuppered. Any ideas ?

loadsacash

To be honest, I don't think that Boris would stop it - He would refuse a section 30 because to be quite frank there still isn't the appetite for another referendum and leave it to the Scots to vote against Independence.

westernpromise

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

And if you were to become independent and then if you were allowed to join the eu in your own right, therefore be subsumed into the eu making independence pointless, you would almost certainly be expected to contribute a large amount.

That's not how Scotch Nits think. They are interested only in unions where they are a net taker.

The only reason they were interested in joining the Union was free English money and the reason any of them want to leave is because they imagine they can Britain's oil for themselves (they can't, but some are dumb enough to imagine otherwise).

The only basis on which they'd want to join the EU is if they got free money for doing so.

Shakethedisease

loadsacash wrote: »

To be honest, I don't think that Boris would stop it - He would refuse a section 30 because to be quite frank there still isn't the appetite for another referendum and leave it to the Scots to vote against Independence.

The appetite is there though, and Boris becoming PM will only feed it.


Sturgeon will ask for a Section 30, will be refused, then will call a referendum anyway. The legislation for Holyrood to hold A referendum already established as perfectly legal it'll be rushed through so fast feet won't touch the ground. No voters thinking of not taking part will only harm their own side - because there won't be any time for lengthy court battles to establish anything one way or the other.

A Yes vote and it's all over.

Enterprise_1701C

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The appetite is there though, and Boris becoming PM will only feed it.


Sturgeon will ask for a Section 30, will be refused, then will call a referendum anyway. The legislation for Holyrood to hold A referendum already established as perfectly legal it'll be rushed through so fast feet won't touch the ground. No voters thinking of not taking part will only harm their own side - because there won't be any time for lengthy court battles to establish anything one way or the other.

A Yes vote and it's all over.

Especially for Scotland. Remember the Catalans?

Shakethedisease

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Especially for Scotland. Remember the Catalans?

What do you mean I don't follow ? Oh and remember that policing is completely devolved to Holyrood. Have you got Boris sending tanks and truncheons in already ?


Scotland's not a region of the UK unfortunately for those who keep harping on about Spain.

loadsacash

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The appetite is there though, and Boris becoming PM will only feed it.


Sturgeon will ask for a Section 30, will be refused, then will call a referendum anyway. The legislation for Holyrood to hold A referendum already established as perfectly legal it'll be rushed through so fast feet won't touch the ground. No voters thinking of not taking part will only harm their own side - because there won't be any time for lengthy court battles to establish anything one way or the other.

A Yes vote and it's all over.

I think that Boris may well be quite popular in Scotland - He was after all a popular Mayor of London

Anyway it seems that you are talking about a No Deal Scoxsit

This may seem ok at the time but what happens when austerity kicks in and people are trying to pay their mortgages with their Scottish pounds!