The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Tromking

Moby wrote: »

Decisions about personal identity and who looks after your interests the best are not made on accountants spreadsheets. The continual repeating of the inequity of the Barnett formula by English Nationalists only brings Scottish independence nearer. You can argue the toss about territorial waters, fishing rights, oil blah blah....it changes nothing. Look at Ireland as the best example. They wanted independence from the British Empire at its height and they got it. How many Irish people do you talk to who want to return to being part of the UK. I don't know any!

The Irish do seem rather wedded to the idea of still having access to the British internal market though, even after 100 years of independence.
I do wobble on about the Barnett formula, but its not my view on it that matters, its that of the Scots. The canny Scots know a good deal when they see one and so ironically does the SNP, not for nothing did they hastily reject the offer of full fiscal autonomy from the Tories a few years back. Why confine Scotland to what they can raise in just Scotland when there's a £10 billion subsidy from the UK Treasury on offer every year.
The only downside to that arrangement is that the unfair funding of England has unwittingly created a situation in England where things like Brexit happen. The next step is probably England voting to jettison itself from a Union that is weighted hopelessly in favour of the Celtic nations.

Arklight

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Scotland will have exactly the same relationship with England and Wales that everyone else in the EU and or Single Market will have in future. It's not a difficult question to answer.

I really do feel a bit frightened by narratives such as yours that can't see past England and Wales being the center of the universe we all revolve round. England and Wales cutting themselves off from the entirety of the EU/Scotland in terms of living, residing, working and trade is going to cause England and Wales some pretty catastrophic problems.

I seriously doubt there's going to be a queue of Scots or any other nation in the EU for that matter all desperately trying to live and work in what is going to become an insolationist, right wing, hostile environment backwater with acute medical shortages and massive unemployment. Please wake up. People will be desperately trying to get out, not in to England and Wales.

Don't you worry about Scotland. You'll have your own problems.

Good grief, you've forgotten the plagues of locusts!

:rotfl:

You keep complaining that people won't have a sensible discussion with you, but you aren't really being very sensible about any of this yourself, are you?

It's a shame you appear to the be sole voice of the Scottish Nationalist cause on the forum.

Anyone else who can have a go? Would be nice to hear a slightly more... balanced, view.

Shakethedisease

Arklight wrote: »

Good grief, you've forgotten the plagues of locusts!

:rotfl:

You keep complaining that people won't have a sensible discussion with you, but you aren't really being very sensible about any of this yourself, are you?

Why do you feel the need to comment on me personally all the time ?

It's a shame you appear to the be sole voice of the Scottish Nationalist cause on the forum.
Anyone else who can have a go? Would be nice to hear a slightly more... balanced, view.

And again why do you feel the need to comment personally ? It's Scotland we're discussing. Your personal commentary on myself as a fellow posting forum member is bordering on obsessional and is boring for everyone else to read. Please stop thanks.

If England and Wales Brexit permanently out of the EU and Single Market, they'll be doing so on their own. No one is going to give the slightest hoot what you think about Scotland maybe or not reapplying for EU membership, illegal votes or recognising Scotland as in independent nation. All will be nothing to do with you anymore. You're going to be left behind as everyone else, Scotland the EU and the world moves on.

I must say lately Nicola's been very bullish indeed over giving Scots the choice and vote I've been talking about. Especially the last few days. Fantastic to see.

@NicolaSturgeon: "If we don't want to have a future imposed upon us, then we must have the opportunity to choose our own future - and that's the choice I want to give the people of Scotland in this term of Parliament."

BBCPhilipSim 6h6 hours ago
Oh hello. Ministerial statement tomorrow afternoon at Holyrood about the "next steps on Scotland's future" - that'll be the indyref2 enabling bill, then

1.30pm tomorrow.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Scotland will have exactly the same relationship with England and Wales that everyone else in the EU and or Single Market will have in future. It's not a difficult question to answer.

Not if the UK leaves the EU first. The relationship will then be up for discussion.

Tromking

Just seen this on Twitter…

Latest ONS regional data sets up to 2017/18. Fiscal deficits per head

£636. UK
£2452. Scotland
£102. England

Scotland’s Deficit per head in 2017/18 was 24 times that of England .

If true, quite remarkable.

mollycat

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I must say lately Nicola's been very bullish indeed over giving Scots the choice and vote I've been talking about.

Which the vast majority of Scottish people don't want; because it's divisive, unwarranted, and stops the country healing after 2014.

That's the very simple point some posters can't grasp.

Of course if one is a high ranking SNP member, who's duties include spreading propaganda, spin and anti-Westminster feeling around social media I would expect that simple truth to be ignored.

Much more important I expect would be to influence those who don't know better, create grudge where none exists, use smoke and mirrors to disguise the true economic state an Independent Scotland would face, all in the pursuit of a selfish an failed ideology.

No wonder these type of posters are now seen as more of a mockery than any kind of credible threat.

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Not if the UK leaves the EU first. The relationship will then be up for discussion.

Nicola's discussing it now though. Just not with Westminster.

Nicola Sturgeon to meet Taoiseach Leo Varadkar in Dublin

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-05-26/nicola-sturgeon-to-meet-taoiseach-leo-varadkar-in-dublin/

You don't really think she's floating about the EU and Ireland to discuss 'cultural links' do you ? :cool:

Shakethedisease

mollycat wrote: »

Which the vast majority of Scottish people don't want; because it's divisive, unwarranted, and stops the country healing after 2014.

That's the very simple point some posters can't grasp.

Of course if one is a high ranking SNP member, who's duties include spreading propaganda, spin and anti-Westminster feeling around social media I would expect that simple truth to be ignored.

Much more important I expect would be to influence those who don't know better, create grudge where none exists, use smoke and mirrors to disguise the true economic state an Independent Scotland would face, all in the pursuit of a selfish an failed ideology.

No wonder these type of posters are now seen as more of a mockery than any kind of credible threat.

Politics is divisive. End of. Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP were voted in on a promise to give Scots a vote in the event of Scotland -against will- you know the rest. In fact there's a remarkable video resurfaced today of Nicola debating with Alistair Carmichael ( the then Sec of State for Scotland ) in the run up to the last indy referendum.


He's totally dismissing her as 'scaremongering' when she asks what happens if the UK votes to leave the EU but Scotland votes to stay ? https://twitter.com/greigforbes/status/1133011149803393024

Anyway, they promised a vote if rUK voted out but Scotland didn't. So that's what we're going to have, because the SNP won the Holyrood elections. The legislation going through Holyrood to enable that vote begins it's journey tomorrow. You may call it or dismiss it as 'propaganda' if you wish.. but it's happening and no amount of wishful thinking and personal insults from posters here can make it otherwise. Sorry.

Enterprise_1701C

Tromking wrote: »

Just seen this on Twitter…

Latest ONS regional data sets up to 2017/18. Fiscal deficits per head

£636. UK
£2452. Scotland
£102. England

Scotland’s Deficit per head in 2017/18 was 24 times that of England .

If true, quite remarkable.

I have heard this before.

And of course they would be delighted to take that with them. Just goes to show that Sturgeon can't really afford all the little bribes she has in place like free uni and free prescriptions etc, how things would change if they ever got independence :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Arklight

Tromking wrote: »

Just seen this on Twitter…

Latest ONS regional data sets up to 2017/18. Fiscal deficits per head

£636. UK
£2452. Scotland
£102. England

Scotland’s Deficit per head in 2017/18 was 24 times that of England .

If true, quite remarkable.

Scotland can be independent. However, the Yes campaign needs to show the same kind of maturity and honesty about the deficits of leaving that is also completely absent from the Brexit movement in England.

There isn't a great deal of difference between Shakey's anti Englishness and the Brexit people's anti EU stance.

Both movements fail to understand that people won't leave at any cost, and they will do anything to conceal there being any cost.

As far as I'm concerned, you are all rowing the same boat.