The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

paparossco

Save a few bob by collecting all these Cream Soda rammies and go green at the same time.

Tromking

Moby wrote: »

Hissing in the wind. The union is dying....English nationalism, fuelled by brexit will finish it.

Oh, the sort of nationalism that doesn’t actually exist you mean?
I’m Cornish, even we have an organised form of petty nationalism that you simply don’t see in England.

Shakethedisease

antrobus wrote: »

I believe that two-thirds of MSPs have to vote for dissolution. The SNP don't even have a majority.

Nicola steps down as First Minister and invites the other parties to try and form a functioning govt and appoint a new First Minister. They cannot as with the ( indy supporting ) Greens the SNP have a majority. Holyrood is dissolved and a Scottish GE is called.

In theory, any member of the Scottish Parliament can be nominated for First Minister. However, the government must maintain the confidence of the Scottish Parliament to in order to gain supply (access to exchequer funds).

a First Minister must be nominated within a period of 28 days.[7] Under the terms of the Scotland Act, if the Parliament fails to nominate a First Minister, within this time frame, it will be dissolved and a fresh election held.[7] If

You're out of luck with that one. A Scottish GE is an option, as is a probable UK General Election soon. It's likely the SNP in agreement with Scottish Greens will stand in either or both on an explicit independence/2nd referendum ticket.

The legislation for a second indy ref will be published next week. Everyone knows there will be no Section 30 forthcoming ever again. However Westminster has already voted and conceded the principle that the Scottish electorate do indeed have the right to decide.

On 4 July 2018, the House of Commons officially endorsed the principles of the Claim of Right, agreeing that the people of Scotland are sovereign and that they have the right to determine the best form of government for Scotland's needs.

You'll notice perhaps that when the SNP talk nowadays they'll almost always shoe horn in that the "rights of the Scottish people" to decide/to have a say/are being ignored ? There's a reason for that I dare say.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You'll notice perhaps that when the SNP talk nowadays they'll almost always shoe horn in that the "rights of the Scottish people" to decide/to have a say/are being ignored ? There's a reason for that I dare say.

Then you would agree that England should leave the EU. As that is what was voted for :cool:

Tromking

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Then you would agree that England should leave the EU. As that is what was voted for :cool:

I think Scottish nationalists (and U.K. politicians) need to realise that England having a lower status in the U.K. as regards per capita spending was always going produce a backlash from the English eventually. I don’t suppose Brexit would’ve happened if England like Scotland had escaped the worst excesses of the austerity era.
With the imminent crash of both the Labour and Conservative parties in popularity, I wonder if they will realise that a two tier U.K where the English are the poor relation has to end.
IMO, there’s no return to politics as usual until they do.

Moby

Tromking wrote: »

Oh, the sort of nationalism that doesn’t actually exist you mean?
I’m Cornish, even we have an organised form of petty nationalism that you simply don’t see in England.

Sorry Tromking don't understand your point? Are you saying English nationalism doesn't exist....or are you being ironic? Have you any idea what it was like to be Irish, living in England in the 70's? I'm Welsh and lived in Chester for a couple of years and was daily the butt of petty nationalist ignorance about 'being careful not to be seen out at night because I could be shot or arrested as a 'thief'.
https://www.mamalisa.com/?t=es&p=1488
I must admit London is different but that's because it's an international city.

There are so many tropes around now which the ignorant quite happily believe to justify their hate. The idea that the English have a lower status in the UK is puerile nonsense and is the very same idea that will destroy the UK. How you divvy up per capita spending can be argued about by accountants all day. There are variations within England; the figures also include state spending so there is a variation due to the level of privatisation in each country, (in Scotland and N Ireland the figures include water).

Arklight

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Nicola steps down as First Minister and invites the other parties to try and form a functioning govt and appoint a new First Minister. They cannot as with the ( indy supporting ) Greens the SNP have a majority. Holyrood is dissolved and a Scottish GE is called. You're out of luck with that one. A Scottish GE is an option, as is a probable UK General Election soon. It's likely the SNP in agreement with Scottish Greens will stand in either or both on an explicit independence/2nd referendum ticket.

The legislation for a second indy ref will be published next week. Everyone knows there will be no Section 30 forthcoming ever again. However Westminster has already voted and conceded the principle that the Scottish electorate do indeed have the right to decide. You'll notice perhaps that when the SNP talk nowadays they'll almost always shoe horn in that the "rights of the Scottish people" to decide/to have a say/are being ignored ? There's a reason for that I dare say.

I've no idea what the SNP are doing because like almost everyone else on this forum, I live in England.

Shakey, you spend absolutely vast amounts of time on here trying to convince English people that Indy is just around the corner. But every time there is any type of election that involves all the other Scottish people, they vote No.

There will doubtless be another general election soon. I think even you know deep down that all that will lead to for Scotland is a few less SNP MPs on last time, and a few more Tory, Labour and Lib Dem ones.

Maybe you would be better off trying to convince your countrymen that they should vote Yes.

Maybe your Nationalist movement should surprise everyone and grow up a bit. Stop wailing like kids who have had your toys taken away, and have an honest look at why you did such a lousy job of promoting your cause to actual Scottish voters in the last Scottish campaign. In Scotland.

Then if there were to be another one, you might at least have some chance of not losing again.

I'm not holding my breath and based on my experience of Scottish Nationalists in the flesh, the biggest barrier you have to convincing people to join you, is yourselves.

Tromking

Moby wrote: »

Sorry Tromking don't understand your point? Are you saying English nationalism doesn't exist....or are you being ironic? Have you any idea what it was like to be Irish, living in England in the 70's? I'm Welsh and lived in Chester for a couple of years and was daily the butt of petty nationalist ignorance about 'being careful not to be seen out at night because I could be shot or arrested as a 'thief'.
https://www.mamalisa.com/?t=es&p=1488
I must admit London is different but that's because it's an international city.

Oh Dear, what it is to be English eh?
The only constituent nation of the UK not to have a strand of petty nationalism that manifests itself in its own devolved parliament or even a political party to vote for and according to you, its the poor old English that are going to end the Union. If only I had a similar anecdote to compete with yours about people who had been beastly to you on the mean streets of Chester a few times
The English are the least hung up about their own national identity, unlike the Celts it has to be said.

Moby wrote: »

There are so many tropes around now which the ignorant quite happily believe to justify their hate. The idea that the English have a lower status in the UK is puerile nonsense and is the very same idea that will destroy the UK. How you divvy up per capita spending can be argued about by accountants all day. There are variations within England; the figures also include state spending so there is a variation due to the level of privatisation in each country, (in Scotland and N Ireland the figures include water).

I don't hate the Scots because they manage to extract a better deal from the UK Treasury than England, I'm irked but not hateful.
I frankly don't care if you accept the long established case that the block grant Scotland receives is generous to the point of being unfair to the English, the important thing is that you can't expect the political status quo to continue as you want, if some UK citizens are materially worse off than others.

Shakethedisease

Arklight wrote: »

I've no idea what the SNP are doing because like almost everyone else on this forum, I live in England.

Shakey, you spend absolutely vast amounts of time on here trying to convince English people that Indy is just around the corner. But every time there is any type of election that involves all the other Scottish people, they vote No.

There will doubtless be another general election soon. I think even you know deep down that all that will lead to for Scotland is a few less SNP MPs on last time, and a few more Tory, Labour and Lib Dem ones.

Maybe you would be better off trying to convince your countrymen that they should vote Yes.

Maybe your Nationalist movement should surprise everyone and grow up a bit. Stop wailing like kids who have had your toys taken away, and have an honest look at why you did such a lousy job of promoting your cause to actual Scottish voters in the last Scottish campaign. In Scotland.

Then if there were to be another one, you might at least have some chance of not losing again.

I'm not holding my breath and based on my experience of Scottish Nationalists in the flesh, the biggest barrier you have to convincing people to join you, is yourselves.

I don't spend 'vast' amounts of time here. Certainly I spend less time than yourself who pops up to comment in every Brexit thread going as well as this one. And you're absolutely right, I don't think you have any idea what's going on in Scotland. Posting up commentary like this

I think even you know deep down that all that will lead to for Scotland is a few less SNP MPs on last time, and a few more Tory, Labour and Lib Dem ones.

Only serves to underline how misinformed and evidence free most of your posts on this Scottish thread are sadly. A real shame on a debate forum/thread where also you tend to get too personal too with nonsense such as the below trying to pass muster as apparent adult conversation.

Shakey is a Scottish Nationalist, and as a Scottish Nationalist she craves independence from the English the way a dying man in the desert craves a cream soda.

It's not debate really is it ? It belongs in a school playgound.

Legislation for a second Scottish independence referendum starts passing through Holyrood this week. There will be no Section 30 from Westminster. Independence support is now within a couple of % points of getting over the 50% mark and that's without a date or co-ordinated campaign. SNP support as a political party is irrelevant and diverging from indy support.. but is hovering at 40%.

October is getting closer, and the Conservative party is about to elect a hardline 'leave without a deal' PM. If by some token they don't then angry party members and grassroots will desert en masse to the Brexit Party. Corbyn is going to face the same in reverse if there's a General Election with remain members and grassroots deserting to LibDem/Change ( who will merge ). A total Westminster mess.

As it was back in 2016, so it is now. If Scotland is taken out of the Single Market.. Scotland will vote on independence again. One way or another despite the lack of a Section 30 and no matter what any YouGov or Survation polls say. You can bet on it, and it's being set up right now by the Scottish Govt. Fact. So it is going to happen, you just don't want to accept it I suppose ?

So that's you up to speed now. Any questions on the topic you wish to discuss or debate with me feel free. But please, less of the schoolyard name calling and 'Shakey this and that'. It makes you sound about 10.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Share of the vote after 22 declarations in Scotland

SNP - 36.6%
Lib Dems- 15.5%
Brexit Party - 15.0%
Conservatives - 12.1%
Labour - 8.3%
Greens - 8.1%

BP knocked into third behind SNP and Lib Dem, BP and Tories combined still a third lower than SNP, and an existential crisis for Labour.

If anything even remotely resembling this swing to SNP takes place at a GE the Tories would lose all 13 of their Scottish seats.