The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Tromking

paparossco wrote: »

You must have a deeper insight than me. I only live in the West of Scotland and repeat that as far as I see or hear the issue of Irish Nationalism is not even a subtext in the Scottish independence argument. What we do have is the Scottish Branches of the Loyal Orange Order trying to drum up (pardon the pun) support for the Unionist cause which is fine as long as they don’t try to disguise it.

Speaking only for myself, my point that as part of the wipe-out of Scottish Labour in the West of Scotland, was the near wholesale adoption of the idea of Scottish Independence by those who identify as Scots with Irish Catholic heritage.
Lest we forget that Glasgow was the only region of Scotland that voted by a majority for independence in 2014. (I think!)
Its as if the SNP lurched to left to garner support in old Labour areas like Glasgow and the Tartan Tories got left behind.

paparossco

Tromking wrote: »

Speaking only for myself, my point that as part of the wipe-out of Scottish Labour in the West of Scotland, was the near wholesale adoption of the idea of Scottish Independence by those who identify as Scots with Irish Catholic heritage.
Lest we forget that Glasgow was the only region of Scotland that voted by a majority for independence in 2014. (I think!)
Its as if the SNP lurched to left to garner support in old Labour areas like Glasgow and the Tartan Tories got left behind.

If you take out the Irish Catholic heritage bit and stick to just Labour then you are closer. I certainly voted for SNP previously as they were the only real alternative to Labour who had become complacent and expected to win. Even Shakey has described how the SNP ranges from left to right with the common aim of independence. If it were to happen then the SNP would fracture. You might even find current SNP members voting for Ruth Davidson I won’t say the same for Richard Leonard as he will be long gone....

Shakethedisease

westernpromise wrote: »

On the contrary, my post is based on the actual legal facts. Like all nationalist, racist guff, it's your thinking that's utopian and wishful. Your "argument" consists of assertions of what's "obvious". What's obvious is that Scotland has no claim on the UK's oil. To obtain a share of the UK's existing fields would entail a renegotiation, agreed by all, the original signatories, of the agreements whereby international waters were partitioned back in the 1960s.

One party to those agreements was the Kingdom of the Netherlands which, like the UK, consists of four countries under a common monarchy. Among these four countries - the Netherlands, Curaçao, Sint Maarten, and Aruba - the latter produces a bit of condensate. Given this, do you imagine, seriously, that the Netherlands would sign up to any precedent whereby a piece of a country can leave and take that parent country's mineral wealth with it? So you've got the UK and the Netherlands that won't renegotiate.

Scotland will get a share of new fields, but remind me again who's developing new fields in the UK sector? Er, nobody, that's who.

You need to do a little bit of growing up and recognise that the world is not as you think it is, nor is Scotland quite the globally significant power you imagine. The UK will not come to an end with the departure of a poverty-stricken and backward region that absorbs 9.3% of its spending population but pays only 7.8% of the tax on the most generous reading while bellyaching with its hand held out to England for more. I very much hope that Scotland will one day learn to stand on its own two feet, and a good start would be to understand how the North Sea actually works. I don't know what Salmond is doing with his time on remand, but he could do worse than use it to understand his own supposed area of expertise.

What you fail to realise is that there already exist a partitons between Scottish and English waters. These partitions exist now, today, currently. These will still be there upon Scottish independence.
Labour changed these boundaries between Scotland and England in 1999, easily and with little fanfare. Also there's lots of investment and new fields being discovered. Oil and gas.

https://gcaptain.com/cnooc-makes-major-new-oil-discovery-in-north-sea-off-scotland/


https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/29/discovery-of-biggest-uk-gas-field-in-a-decade-glengorm-north-sea

Scotland certainly will be getting a share of the oil/gas fields in the North Sea. It'll be 100% of. rUK will have to play very nice if they want any sweeteners from those.

Arklight

Shakethedisease wrote: »

What you fail to realise is that there already exist a partitons between Scottish and English waters. These partitions exist now, today, currently. These will still be there upon Scottish independence.
Labour changed these boundaries between Scotland and England in 1999, easily and with little fanfare. Also there's lots of investment and new fields being discovered. Oil and gas.

https://gcaptain.com/cnooc-makes-major-new-oil-discovery-in-north-sea-off-scotland/


https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/29/discovery-of-biggest-uk-gas-field-in-a-decade-glengorm-north-sea

Scotland certainly will be getting a share of the oil/gas fields in the North Sea. It'll be 100% of. rUK will have to play very nice if they want any sweeteners from those.

I don't wish to sound rude, but what actually are your qualifications or experience regarding any of this conjecture?

paparossco

http://marine.gov.scot/information/exclusive-economic-zone-eez-scottish-zone

So the question is I suppose would this become ‘Scottish Waters’ if independence were to happen?

westernpromise

Shakethedisease wrote: »

What you fail to realise is that there already exist a partitons between Scottish and English waters. These partitions exist now, today, currently. These will still be there upon Scottish independence.
Labour changed these boundaries between Scotland and England in 1999, easily and with little fanfare. Also there's lots of investment and new fields being discovered. Oil and gas.

https://gcaptain.com/cnooc-makes-major-new-oil-discovery-in-north-sea-off-scotland/

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/29/discovery-of-biggest-uk-gas-field-in-a-decade-glengorm-north-sea

Scotland certainly will be getting a share of the oil/gas fields in the North Sea. It'll be 100% of. rUK will have to play very nice if they want any sweeteners from those.

* sigh *
As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, the allocation of hydrocarbons in international waters was established by multinational treaty in the 1960s.

To change any of this would require the consent of all the parties to those existing agreements. I have explained to you repeatedly why this will not be forthcoming.

Scotland can argue for a different allocation of future production, but you will still need everyone to agree, just like everyone had to agree in 1965. What is Scotland prepared to pay the UK for that agreement?

Arklight

A second referendum is coming!

No, not on Scottish Independence, on Brexit. And it's going to be a thumping Remain win this time.

Brexit was about the only hope the Nats had of seeing an independent Scotland, and now that has been snatched away like a haggis that costs £15 from a street vagbond who has only £3.29.


A Scottish Nationalist earlier today

elantan

wasnt Dundee a YES city ? or was it just Gladgow ?

paparossco

Dundee, Glasgow, North Lanarkshire and West Dunbartonshire were the ‘Yes’ areas

Thrugelmir

paparossco wrote: »

You must have a deeper insight than me.

When push comes to shove. Interesting how many people rediscover their heritage. Tribalism lives on. The veneer does peel away. Brexit has shown how shallow some people away. Economic neccessity is greater than loyalty. .