The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Bit of a waste of a vote really. If it was a yes it would be unsanctioned and therefore unactionable, if it was a no you would say that it didn't count anyway.

Of course a vote would count. Whatisface ( antrobus ) is right there won't be another indyref like the last one. But there will be a vote in some form.

You can see the narratives of the SNP slowly changing over the last few weeks. It's gone from hardly ever referencing independence in the last year - to the point Mike Russell was openly talking about how the Scottish people must have a say via a vote on Sunday Politics ( Scotland ). Some MP's/MSP's are also openly tweeting about how this current Tory meltdown will mean a sooner Scottish vote on independence. The National, a good barometer of current SNP/Indy campaign thinking, has been chock full of second vote articles too.

They're setting the scene for Scots as to what to expect. And soon too.

AngusMacNeilSNP 6h6 hours ago
Even in this #r4today interview it is like David Davis doesn't fully understand the gravity of the situation of Brexit or the calamity all around him and the PM is fine he says?!! Tone contrasts massively with the calamity for UK Brexiteer types. Time for #indyref2 Scotland.

Sunday Politics Scot
Brexit Secretary @Feorlean on the proposals agreed by Theresa May and her cabinet this week: This is a step in the right direction but it falls short of what the Scottish Government wants #bbcsp Scotland

Malthusian

If there was an Indyref2 there will inevitably be an Indyref3 as well. If Leave wins, then Remain will call for another referendum, with the pretext being "so the Scots can vote on the actual deal", and the real reason being "if Leave got a second go, why shouldn't we?"And unlike the mooted second Brexit referendum, Remain would stand a very strong chance of overturning a Leave vote.

While if Remain wins, then naturally Leave will call for a third referendum, because having got their way after losing the first vote, there's no reason not to try again.

This in my opinion is why there will not be another independent referendum within a generation. Brexit is neither here nor there. The Scots were perfectly aware that if they voted to remain under London rule, London would take some decisions which they didn't like. That's the point.

mollycat

Malthusian wrote: »

If there was an Indyref2 there will inevitably be an Indyref3 as well. If Leave wins, then Remain will call for another referendum, with the pretext being "so the Scots can vote on the actual deal", and the real reason being "if Leave got a second go, why shouldn't we?"And unlike the mooted second Brexit referendum, Remain would stand a very strong chance of overturning a Leave vote.

While if Remain wins, then naturally Leave will call for a third referendum, because having got their way after losing the first vote, there's no reason not to try again.

This in my opinion is why there will not be another independent referendum within a generation. Brexit is neither here nor there. The Scots were perfectly aware that if they voted to remain under London rule, London would take some decisions which they didn't like. That's the point.

Bang on.....so simple an explanation you would think that even the least sophisticated of thinkers could grasp it.

elantan

Fun day in politics today

westernpromise

I don't really keep up with foopbaw, so can anyone tell me how Scotland's World Cup is going?

phillw

antrobus wrote: »

Perhaps they will remember that the people of Scotland did decide their own future in 2014.

Respect the result.:)

They voted to remain part of the UK and the EU. How do you respect that result without being selective?

Malthusian wrote: »

The Scots were perfectly aware that if they voted to remain under London rule, London would take some decisions which they didn't like. That's the point.

Enough was devolved and more was being devolved, plus the EU stopped London from abusing the serfs too much. Now London has snatched a lot of the devolved power back.

I don't think anyone could have predicted the leave result, it was obvious that alot of remain voters were caught out assuming it wasn't necessary to vote because we were going to stay in.

Shakethedisease

Malthusian wrote: »

If there was an Indyref2 there will inevitably be an Indyref3 as well. If Leave wins, then Remain will call for another referendum, with the pretext being "so the Scots can vote on the actual deal", and the real reason being "if Leave got a second go, why shouldn't we?"And unlike the mooted second Brexit referendum, Remain would stand a very strong chance of overturning a Leave vote.

While if Remain wins, then naturally Leave will call for a third referendum, because having got their way after losing the first vote, there's no reason not to try again.

This in my opinion is why there will not be another independent referendum within a generation. Brexit is neither here nor there. The Scots were perfectly aware that if they voted to remain under London rule, London would take some decisions which they didn't like. That's the point.

Nah. There's not a country in the world that's gained it's independence then voted to go back. Unless you know of any ? Do tell if so ?

There's a VERY big difference between an already independent UK voting to come out of the EU. And a Scotland voting for 'actual' independence. Not comparable.

There will be a second vote, and it'll probably be soon ( next year ). They're laying the groundwork and normalising the idea of it right now in Scotland. and very openly too. While folks might be dismissive of the National, this sort of thing below is what's staring folks in the face every day recently in Tesco and Asda newspaper shelves. https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1016418387470311427

I'm also a bit curious as to what remarks like these were alluding to last week.

Patrick Grady MP

In 1989 they refused to sign, in 2012 they voted against - tonight Scottish Tories in @HouseOfCommons accepted the #ClaimOfRight for Scotland without a vote. I'm not sure what's changed - and I wonder if anyone asked their leader - but the consequences are profound...

Enterprise_1701C

phillw wrote: »

They voted to remain part of the UK and the EU. How do you respect that result without being selective?



Enough was devolved and more was being devolved, plus the EU stopped London from abusing the serfs too much. Now London has snatched a lot of the devolved power back.

I don't think anyone could have predicted the leave result, it was obvious that alot of remain voters were caught out assuming it wasn't necessary to vote because we were going to stay in.

They voted to remain part of the UK. The fact that the UK was then part of the eu is irrelevant, If Scotland had voted for independence then they would have ceased to be part of the UK which would have meant they were no longer part of the country that was in the eu.

As for predicting the leave result, maybe people should stop making assumptions about voting, it is ALWAYS worth voting. There is a good chance that the non-voters were about 50/50 anyway, no point in assuming they were all remain or all leave.

elantan

aye that was an interesting debate and vote to watch

elantan

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

They voted to remain part of the UK. The fact that the UK was then part of the eu is irrelevant, If Scotland had voted for independence then they would have ceased to be part of the UK which would have meant they were no longer part of the country that was in the eu.

As for predicting the leave result, maybe people should stop making assumptions about voting, it is ALWAYS worth voting. There is a good chance that the non-voters were about 50/50 anyway, no point in assuming they were all remain or all leave.

you seem to forget they then voted in a party that said they would hold another one if a material change was to take place ... u seem to remember one vote but not the other ... selective memory maybe