The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

islandannie

As proud Scots and one of the wealthiest countries in the world 14th according to the SNP.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26614122

We should have no problem with the loss of circa £9 billion pounds from barnett per annum and lets just guess at say £4 billion of whatever currency we can latch onto, invent or claim as our own to contribute to rejoin the EU means we will all be living the life of milk and honey.

I think not.

ruggedtoast

.string. wrote: »

You're letting your anti-Tory-at-any-cost attitude get the better of your slightly better judgement.

While I disagree with the result of the EU Referendum, I really have to remind you that the UK Government is respecting the decision of the UK Voters, while the SNP has never respected the decision of the Scottish Voters in the Scottish Referendum and has continued the SNP disruptive way even since it was held.

Personally I doubt that Sturgeon is getting the sort of publicity she wants; she been on a fool's errand.

Well, the SNP are a nationalist party committed to independence who were voted in with an overwhelming majority after the referendum, and are still the largest party. So I would say the issue is clouded.

The SNP also made it quite clear that they would seek another referendum if England took Scotland out of Europe. They are doing what they say they would as far as I can see.

I wouldn't be so sure that Leave voters will ever see their request actioned either. The first thing Cameron promised to do if Leave won was to submit Article 50.

The first thing he actually did was pointedly not submit Article 50 and invent a reason why no one will even think about it for four months at least.

I have an English friend who lives in Scotland who says the SNP do a great job of fighting for ordinary Scots and most people like them a fair bit. Things genuinely work better with the SNP in power.

Maybe if Westminster politicians showed any sign of caring about the lives of ordinary English, Welsh and NI people they wouldn't be so unpopular.

TrickyTree83

islandannie wrote: »

As proud Scots and one of the wealthiest countries in the world 14th according to the SNP.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26614122

We should have no problem with the loss of circa £9 billion pounds from barnett per annum and lets just guess at say £4 billion of whatever currency we can latch onto, invent or claim as our own to contribute to rejoin the EU means we will all be living the life of milk and honey.

I think not.

You forgot, if Scotland became independant they might qualify for International Development Aid from the UK!

HornetSaver

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Sturgeon is no fool.

She knows that the publicity she is getting in Europe is invaluable for pushing Scotland to the fore of the current events.

The one, and only, way in which Scotland can remain in the EU is if its membership of the EU constitutes part of the Article 50 process, as this is the only way by which a Spanish veto can be avoided. Westminster would only agree to this if there were a successful Scottish referendum AND rUK got a superb deal from the EU in return.

So while I'd agree that Sturgeon is no fool (and while it was never going to succeed, I do admire the SNP's wit, cunning and tenacity in making the valid point that Angus Robertson enjoys greater support on the opposition benches than Jeremy Corbyn), I question whether her publicity on continental Europe is particularly helping her cause.

TrickyTree83

HornetSaver wrote: »

The one, and only, way in which Scotland can remain in the EU is if its membership of the EU constitutes part of the Article 50 process, as this is the only way by which a Spanish veto can be avoided. Westminster would only agree to this if there were a successful Scottish referendum AND rUK got a superb deal from the EU in return.

So while I'd agree that Sturgeon is no fool (and while it was never going to succeed, I do admire the SNP's wit, cunning and tenacity in making the valid point that Angus Robertson enjoys greater support on the opposition benches than Jeremy Corbyn), I question whether her publicity on continental Europe is particularly helping her cause.

Seems to be damaging to me.

France says no, Spain says no, Tusk says no.

Article 50 refers to the UK, whilst Scotland remains a part of the UK that will continue to be the case.

Scotland (as the EU have stated) would need to first become independent, along with all the consequences and trappings that come with that and then re-apply to join the EU.

HornetSaver

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Article 50 refers to the UK, whilst Scotland remains a part of the UK that will continue to be the case.

Scotland (as the EU have stated) would need to first become independent, along with all the consequences and trappings that come with that and then re-apply to join the EU.

The Scottish could hold an advisory referendum (taking full advantage of Westminster's assertion that they do not have the capacity to hold a binding one), ask precisely the same question as in 2014 to ensure no legal quibbles with the fairness of the ballot, but time the formal declaration of independence such that Article 50 applies to them whilst negotiations are being carried out.

This would ensure that Scotland can Remain in the European Union subject to a successful negotiation, and in all seriousness would be the most mutually beneficial leaving present the Scots could possibly give to the English, the Welsh, and the NI Unionists.

But it remains a longshot (pun unintended), and yet is Scotland's best shot of staying in the EU.

TrickyTree83

HornetSaver wrote: »

The Scottish could hold an advisory referendum (taking full advantage of Westminster's assertion that they do not have the capacity to hold a binding one), ask precisely the same question as in 2014 to ensure no legal quibbles with the fairness of the ballot, but time the formal declaration of independence such that Article 50 applies to them whilst negotiations are being carried out.

This would ensure that Scotland can Remain in the European Union subject to a successful negotiation, and in all seriousness would be the most mutually beneficial leaving present the Scots could possibly give to the English, the Welsh, and the NI Unionists.

But it remains a longshot (pun unintended), and yet is Scotland's best shot of staying in the EU.

Are you implying that Scotland would be able to leave the Union, split the debt, split assets, re-negotiate contracts, setup everything else they need on the basis of an advisory referendum?

It's quite clear to most I would think that any independence referendum cannot happen without a nod from Westminster, as it happens I think Scotland would get that nod anyway.

Yet the Scottish nationalists continually forget that they run a £15bn deficit (~9% of Scottish GDP) and that's including Barnett funding. The Scottish economy is structurally flawed and the debts would be crippling. They would not have control of their own currency and would I think have to choose between Sterling with no control and the Euro with a minority say in how it's ran.

They should just have the referendum, but the UK government should say "that's it for the next 100 years" or something equivalent. The circus needs to stop no matter who is in power up there.

HornetSaver

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Are you implying that Scotland would be able to leave the Union, split the debt, split assets, re-negotiate contracts, setup everything else they need on the basis of an advisory referendum?

It's quite clear to most I would think that any independence referendum cannot happen without a nod from Westminster, as it happens I think Scotland would get that nod anyway.

Yet the Scottish nationalists continually forget that they run a £15bn deficit (~9% of Scottish GDP) and that's including Barnett funding. The Scottish economy is structurally flawed and the debts would be crippling. They would not have control of their own currency and would I think have to choose between Sterling with no control and the Euro with a minority say in how it's ran.

They should just have the referendum, but the UK government should say "that's it for the next 100 years" or something equivalent. The circus needs to stop no matter who is in power up there.

I agree with some of this and disagree with other parts. As I said, it's a longshot (I do however take the view that if a Scottish referendum were held in 2017, Yes to independence would win).

I'm simply saying its the route I would take if I were the leader of the SNP and committed to Scottish independence. I am neither of those things.

islandannie

The SNP become more ridiculous by the minute.

Gordon Wilson castigates France for forgetting the Auld alliance which dates back to the 13th century.

I am more and more embarrassed to be Scottish.

13th century sheesh.

http://www.scotsman.com/heritage/people-places/francois-hollande-has-forgotten-auld-alliance-ex-snp-chief-1-4166061

ruggedtoast

The Scotgroat (shortened to the scrote) would be floated and do well eventually.