The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

.string.

Tromking wrote: »

Depends on the size of the layers IMO.
A 500 seat English parliament with a 100 seat federal one doesn't add to the payroll too much. I've never quite got the England is too big for one parliament argument.

I'm not sure, but I think you misunderstood me , my fault no doubt. The layers I was referring to was having several English Regions, each with their own ministers of this or that, duplicating , competing, squabbling, and talking - oh the talking!

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Generali wrote: »

I'm an equity analyst living in Sydney and we Brits are a laughing stock.

I had someone stop me in the street as I left the ferry on the way home this evening and ask me !!!!!! was going on.

*sigh*

You can only imagine the conversations I've endured in Europe.

We're running nearly two days behind schedule as we keep getting sidetracked apologising for the idiocy of our nation.

elantan

.string. wrote: »

No that's not true, I care for one.

But that does not mean that I buy into this bleating by Sturgeon and her Westminster Collective that there is some sort of Democratic shortfall and Scotland being dragged out of the EU against its will.

As a result of their own Referendum Scotland is part of the UK for a generation and as such the democratic process is that according to the majority of the people in the UK, not a region of it and not (very unfortunately) the voter living in my house.

Had it been the case that England had voted to leave but the Scottish votes had been sufficient to tip the balance towards Remain, I just can't imagine there would have been a similar fuss in England claiming that democracy had not been served because "England was stuck in the EU against her will". (Personally I wish that had been the case by the way).

A past post of (forget who) for the SNP lot reposted some sort of spiteful smiley cartoon showing difference possible outcomes: The smiley for the above scenario gave a big fat grinning smiley, a telling indicator of the shallowness of the SNP protestations.

It was me and it wasnt a SNP one

.string.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

*sigh*

You can only imagine the conversations I've endured in Europe.

We're running nearly two days behind schedule as we keep getting sidetracked apologising for the idiocy of our nation.

I can understand that very well, I'd hate to be still working in esa at this moment, trying to keep the project on track with a team made up of several different nationalities.

.string.

elantan wrote: »

It was me and it wasnt a SNP one

That figures, but same difference.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Perhaps the news that has been missed, is that the Scottish Parliament has just voted in essence to enact it's own foreign policy, regardless of Westminster. It's going to be very hard to put that one back in the box in future too in my view.

That is quite incredible, and outside of the rights of the Scottish parliament. I'd be surprised if there wasn't any blowback on them if that is the case.

They are not independent, they are not sovereign, there is no right to have a foreign policy under the Scottish Parliament Act 1998.

A big legal faux pas.

Edit: I now want to ask any Scottish people or preferably SNP supporters on this thread what they believe this course of action Nicola is taking will have on relations between Scotland and the rest of the UK? For me I'm aghast at the disrespect shown to the other nation states of the Union. The UK is the internationally recognised country. It's like Texas going bezerk and proclaiming it's independence from the USA because it dislikes NAFTA. Do the Scottish no longer see themselves as British? Or is Nicola waging a political war on that idea?

I've always seem myself as British, and the Union Flag is my flag.

Only in sport do I see myself as English first, in sports where we do not field a GB team.

If Nicola and Alex are right and the Scottish have turned against the Union, why is that?

zagubov

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

That is quite incredible, and outside of the rights of the Scottish parliament. I'd be surprised if there wasn't any blowback on them if that is the case.

They are not independent, they are not sovereign, there is no right to have a foreign policy under the Scottish Parliament Act 1998.

A big legal faux pas.

Edit: I now want to ask any Scottish people or preferably SNP supporters on this thread what they believe this course of action Nicola is taking will have on relations between Scotland and the rest of the UK? For me I'm aghast at the disrespect shown to the other nation states of the Union. The UK is the internationally recognised country. It's like Texas going bezerk and proclaiming it's independence from the USA because it dislikes NAFTA. Do the Scottish no longer see themselves as British? Or is Nicola waging a political war on that idea?

Take it easy. If the Soviet Union let Ukraine and Byelorussia have UN seats, and China lets regions like Hong Kong deal with the WTO, (let alone drive on the wrong side of the road and use their own currency), what's so inferior about UK democracy that we can't let our subdivisions make their own decisions without accusing them of being disrespectful.

TrickyTree83

zagubov wrote: »

Take it easy. If the Soviet Union let Ukraine and Byelorussia have UN seats, and China lets regions like Hong Kong deal with the WTO, (let alone drive on the wrong side of the road and use their own currency), what's so inferior about UK democracy that we can't let our subdivisions make their own decisions without accusing them of being disrespectful.

Because that's not what is being proposed.

They are allowed to make more decisions than an American state.

What the SNP and Nicola are gunning for is independence from the Union of over 300 years of shared history and diminishing Britain because they are anti-English.

I cannot work out why this anti-English sentiment has bubbled up into a political war cry and constant destabilisation of the union, it hasn't happened the other way around and the "west lothian question" and Barnett give the English far more reason to cry foul than the Scottish. I worry for Scotland, they will be lead down the garden path. The union isn't like the EU, you can't leave and then rejoin. Leaving the union would scar the rest of the UK and the people within it. If there wasn't anti-Scottish sentiment before Scottish independence there probably would be after a vote to leave the union.

zagubov

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Because that's not what is being proposed.

They are allowed to make more decisions than an American state.

What the SNP and Nicola are gunning for is independence from the Union of over 300 years of shared history and diminishing Britain because they are anti-English.

I cannot work out why this anti-English sentiment has bubbled up into a political war cry and constant destabilisation of the union, it hasn't happened the other way around and the "west lothian question" and Barnett give the English far more reason to cry foul than the Scottish. I worry for Scotland, they will be lead down the garden path. The union isn't like the EU, you can't leave and then rejoin. Leaving the union would scar the rest of the UK and the people within it. If there wasn't anti-Scottish sentiment before Scottish independence there probably would be after a vote to leave the union.

I can't understand where the anti-English concept has popped into your head. Are you confusing the central UK government with England in some way? That would explain your misunderstanding.

TrickyTree83

zagubov wrote: »

I can't understand where the anti-English concept has popped into your head. Are you confusing the central UK government with England in some way? That would explain your misunderstanding.

It's quite well documented that SNP support has anti-english sentiments running through it. And no I'm not confusing the two since they are seen as the same thing. The UK government is made up mostly of English MP's. Calling it Westminster, or the UK government is dodging the issue which is that Scotland doesn't like to be told what to do by its bigger neighbour (despite the subsidies), which is quite frankly democratic and this translates into an anti-english feeling. If the national view was that we were all British living in Britain we wouldn't be having this discussion, yet the Scottish don't feel that way and the English have no choice but to feel British as there's no other kind of representation available!