The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

IveSeenTheLight

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

To summarise then:
In your opinion the council elections were a farce.
In your opinion forthcoming GE is also irrelevant in terms of a mandate for a further indyref.

Alrighty, we must advise the electorate and stop these now, right?
No?
Then I must thankfully accept that these are in fact just your skewed opinions.
Yes, the GE is indeed about much much more than Scottish independence.
But the whole raison d'etre for the SNP is independence, right?
Ergo if no majority vote is achieved by the SNP in either election, it must naturally follow that there is no mandate for independence either.

68% against SNP in council elections.
Looking like a possibility of sub-40% vote for the SNP in the GE too.
Just over two weeks to go & I accept much can (and probably will) happen before then.
I said before somewhere that I think a Tory landslide would be unhealthy for UK politics but IMHO the opposition have plateaued & Tory support will increase once again.
How much is really all that remains to be seen.

Again, there are only two weeks or so until a firmer "show of hands" is made.
So we will soon see.

I could take the time to answer the points you raise and the errors in your assumptions, but probably best let it move on as I already know what your responses would be.

Lets just agree to disagree on

1. Whether there is a mandate for IndyRef2
2. The democratic will of the Holyrood parliament being upheld
3. The folly of lumping all other parties votes into one group, else we'll end up showing that the government following June 08th does not have the backing of the majority of the country.

I'll retain the right to add to the above list

TrickyTree83

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

I could take the time to answer the points you raise and the errors in your assumptions, but probably best let it move on as I already know what your responses would be.

Lets just agree to disagree on

1. Whether there is a mandate for IndyRef2
2. The democratic will of the Holyrood parliament being upheld
3. The folly of lumping all other parties votes into one group, else we'll end up showing that the government following June 08th does not have the backing of the majority of the country.

I'll retain the right to add to the above list

In bold: is that not what is happening with the EU referendum result? That would be across many different party political affiliations as it was a binary issue, the same can be said of the independence question and the unionist parties (Labour, Lib Dems and Conservatives mostly) would be those standing against independence, so votes for these 3 in particular should be looked at in the same light as you look at the result of the EU referendum with regards to your calls for another referendum.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

I could take the time to answer the points you raise and the errors in your assumptions, but probably best let it move on as I already know what your responses would be.

Lets just agree to disagree on

1. Whether there is a mandate for IndyRef2
2. The democratic will of the Holyrood parliament being upheld
3. The folly of lumping all other parties votes into one group, else we'll end up showing that the government following June 08th does not have the backing of the majority of the country.

I'll retain the right to add to the above list

Indeed we may not agree.

Re: your point #3 however, there is a vast difference between a mandate for independence or for Brexit, and a mandate to govern.
To govern a political party does not need a majority of all votes cast.
Hence why both IndyRef and Brexit achieved such high voter turnouts.

IveSeenTheLight

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

In bold: is that not what is happening with the EU referendum result? That would be across many different party political affiliations as it was a binary issue, the same can be said of the independence question and the unionist parties (Labour, Lib Dems and Conservatives mostly) would be those standing against independence, so votes for these 3 in particular should be looked at in the same light as you look at the result of the EU referendum with regards to your calls for another referendum.

I'd agree if it was a binary question.

This GE is not a binary question vote.

IveSeenTheLight

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Indeed we may not agree.

Re: your point #3 however, there is a vast difference between a mandate for independence or for Brexit, and a mandate to govern.
To govern a political party does not need a majority of all votes cast.
Hence why both IndyRef and Brexit achieved such high voter turnouts.

Accepted, hence why any question on IndyRef2 or Brexit Final position referendum should be a binary one and voted for separately.

elantan

mollycat wrote: »

Try and think this through...please.

People aren't outraged about any "lie", (if there was one).

It's the pro-independence movement's default position of trying to smear and discredit any opposition to them, and that includes ordinary folk trying to do a difficult job....a terrifying taste of things to come in any iScotland.

Try and think this through please ... people expect that type of manipulating behaviour from politicians ... that doesn't make it right or acceptable ... but it is expected ... people don't expect members of the public to try and manipulate the people to such an extent as she did

This is though I suppose typical unionist behaviour ... I suppose we shouldn't really be surprised

A terrifying taste of what Scotland is becoming due to still being part of the UK

IveSeenTheLight

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Indeed we may not agree.

Re: your point #3 however, there is a vast difference between a mandate for independence or for Brexit, and a mandate to govern.
To govern a political party does not need a majority of all votes cast.
Hence why both IndyRef and Brexit achieved such high voter turnouts.

Off on a tangent, but would you consider a Single Transferable Vote system to determine the government.
That would better identify the countries preference

TrickyTree83

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

I'd agree if it was a binary question.

This GE is not a binary question vote.

The independence question is binary.

Those parties are well known for their stance on independence.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Off on a tangent, but would you consider a Single Transferable Vote system to determine the government.
That would better identify the countries preference

It has benefits but in honesty it has too many disadvantages too.
And let's be honest, many have trouble deciding on one candidate or party.

Asking people to choose to order candidates/parties in order is asking for trouble.
We could end up like the USA or France and be left with choices like they had.
No thank you.

edinburgher

Serious question - don't the SNP have a manifesto for the GE?