The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shaka_Zulu

Shakethedisease wrote: »

She might not be guilty of anything.

Is that what we have to look forward to in an independent Scotland!

The moral to this story is if you value your privacy, say nothing, lie to the pollsters and cast your vote quietly in the ballot box.

Yah_Boo_Sux

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

I'm not accusing you of anything, it's just an observation Im seeing with many posters in here.

You must lead a very unfulfilling life to get such obvious pleasure from casting unfounded aspertions and taunting other posters. No wonder so many use the name you dislike when referring to you, but they are all wrong and you are right are you?

Oh and I am not Scottish (FrenchEnglish actually) but I have Scottish family.

Dodhe all you like but the majority of Scots do not want a referendum.
Even in this thread that is recognised.
You are uneccesarily trying to force an issue and who will pay? You?

When or if there is a desire, that will be your opportunity. But that is not now.

mollycat

elantan wrote: »

My issue is with the lie ... I watched the programme at a friends and thought nah something is up here

I personally do think nurses should get more wages and I do believe we should hold our government to account and I quite enjoy someone getting stuck into Sturgeon, she needs it ( education here totally needs sorted) I prefer it when it's a member of the public, Rape clause Ruth just shouts ... I would rather see people give REAL life situations,

Remember I'm more of a Green supporter though, Patrick was OK on the debate but didn't really speak up enough ... he couldn't get a word in with Ruth Shouting, Sturgeon interupting Fugdale screaching and Coburn being ... well Coburn really

I like to see how Willie Rennoe brings up the police ( although he has a cheek there) and the mental health issues . Sturgeon should answer more about the mental health issue's happening here

But whilst everyone is also going on about this we forget the guy that mentions the snooping and benefit cuts

Try and think this through...please.

People aren't outraged about any "lie", (if there was one).

It's the pro-independence movement's default position of trying to smear and discredit any opposition to them, and that includes ordinary folk trying to do a difficult job....a terrifying taste of things to come in any iScotland.

IveSeenTheLight

Yah_Boo_Sux wrote: »

You are uneccesarily trying to force an issue and who will pay? You?

When or if there is a desire, that will be your opportunity. But that is not now.

Sticking to your topical points.
I heard an interesting point last night from Patrick Harvie.

In 2014, 55% of the electorate that voted, opted to remain within the UK.

In 2016, 62% of the electorate that voted, opted to remain within the EU.

Those results, indicate that a greater percentage of the electorate opted to remain in the EU, than remain in the UK.

With the significant change in circumstances from 2014, it's only right that the Independence referendum question should be
asked again.

I just can't fathom, if regardless if Scotland is such a burden, if the Unionists believe there is no desire and that the result would reaffirm the 2014 results, why then would they not grant the section 30 to close down the issue.

They must really be fearful that they would lose the referendum this time.

TrickyTree83

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Sticking to your topical points.
I heard an interesting point last night from Patrick Harvie.

In 2014, 55% of the electorate that voted, opted to remain within the UK.

In 2016, 62% of the electorate that voted, opted to remain within the EU.

Those results, indicate that a greater percentage of the electorate opted to remain in the EU, than remain in the UK.

With the significant change in circumstances from 2014, it's only right that the Independence referendum question should be
asked again.

I just can't fathom, if regardless if Scotland is such a burden, if the Unionists believe there is no desire and that the result would reaffirm the 2014 results, why then would they not grant the section 30 to close down the issue.

They must really be fearful that they would lose the referendum this time.

Always be careful with percentages... the cohort size should always be considered.

The turnout for 2014 was substantially higher than that of 2016. 55% is a larger section of the electorate than the 62%. Is Patrick a bit dull?

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Shakethedisease wrote: »

It starts getting dangerous when people start using transient and changeable opinion polling rather than real votes in real democratic elections in order to decide 'what the people want'. And it's getting so bad, normally intelligent people don't even realise they're doing it. They just parrot a line.

We aren't governed via opinion polls. We choose what we want via elections and people like me and ISTL have plenty of respect for democracy. We're just more than a bit taken aback that people like you really believe and would put YouGov and Panelbase above real voters in real elections... because it's SO laughably silly.

Is this what you are saying when you say 'the people don't want it' ? Feel free to clarify ?

You're blethering again.
The last paragraph - I will clarify.
You will no doubt disagree just because ...... well no reason.
Other than that you wont like being faced with the facts.

There has been a referendum, the result was "No".

We just had council elections.
In which approximately 32% of all those who voted did so for the SNP, the party wanting independence.
No, that vote was not about independence but since the SNP are the Scots party based solely upon an independent Scotland it's a pretty big indication of people's opinion.

There is a GE soon.
Will the SNP get more than 50% of the vote?
Unlikely but we will see.
If they do, then you might be able to say that a majority of Scots want independence.
If they don't you're sunk; you will have no argument because the people will have spoken.

Is it too long to wait, these what? 14 or 15 days?
Come back after then.
When you will either have an argument for IndyRef2 or you will not.
Before then it is pretty pointless debate.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Those results, indicate that a greater percentage of the electorate opted to remain in the EU, than remain in the UK.

With the significant change in circumstances from 2014, it's only right that the Independence referendum question should be
asked again.

If you accept that those results make the indication you say, why do you not accept that the recent results make a similar indication?

Because this time in the council elections 68% of Scots did not vote SNP.
As I write above, there are only two weeks or so until a firmer "show of hands" is made.
So we will soon see.

IveSeenTheLight

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Always be careful with percentages... the cohort size should always be considered.

The turnout for 2014 was substantially higher than that of 2016. 55% is a larger section of the electorate than the 62%. Is Patrick a bit dull?

I understand that, but we have to accept that the turnout and percentage of those electing to vote.

It's still an indicator (for me) that its right to re-ask the question on Independence given the significant change with Brexit

IveSeenTheLight

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

If you accept that those results make the indication you say, why do you not accept that the recent results make a similar indication?

Because this time in the council elections 68% of Scots did not vote SNP.
As I write above, there are only two weeks or so until a firmer "show of hands" is made.
So we will soon see.

Council elections were a farce in my opinion.
I understand the STV premise, but with limited candidates for the number of positions, it was hardly an election.

In my ward, I had 5 candidates for 4 positions and could vote for all 5 candidates.

80% of the candidates in my ward were successful.

When I looked across a number of wards, it was a similar situation
Not exactly a good example of democratic indication.

June 08th is irrelevant in terms of Independence and Section 30.
The GE is about far more things than Scottish Independence, but I realise why the Conservatives are using it as smoke and mirrors to deflect away from the policy measures they are trying to push through.

I'm glad the public are not falling for it though and the polls have shown that the more TM campaigns, the more slender a lead she has.

Hence the policy u-turns to try and re-gain the margin of lead she has lost.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Council elections were a farce in my opinion.
I understand the STV premise, but with limited candidates for the number of positions, it was hardly an election.

In my ward, I had 5 candidates for 4 positions and could vote for all 5 candidates.

80% of the candidates in my ward were successful.

When I looked across a number of wards, it was a similar situation
Not exactly.

June 08th is irrelevant in terms of Independence and Section 30.
The GE is about far more things than Scottish Independence, but I realise why the Conservatives are using it as smoke and mirrors to deflect away from the policy measures they are trying to push through.

I'm glad the public are not falling for it though and the polls have shown that the more TM campaigns, the more slender a lead she has.

Hence the policy u-turns to try and re-gain the margin of lead she has lost.

To summarise then:
In your opinion the council elections were a farce.
In your opinion forthcoming GE is also irrelevant in terms of a mandate for a further indyref.

Alrighty, we must advise the electorate and stop these now, right?
No?
Then I must thankfully accept that these are in fact just your skewed opinions.
Yes, the GE is indeed about much much more than Scottish independence.
But the whole raison d'etre for the SNP is independence, right?
Ergo if no majority vote is achieved by the SNP in either election, it must naturally follow that there is no mandate for independence either.

68% against SNP in council elections.
Looking like a possibility of sub-40% vote for the SNP in the GE too.
Just over two weeks to go & I accept much can (and probably will) happen before then.
I said before somewhere that I think a Tory landslide would be unhealthy for UK politics but IMHO the opposition have plateaued & Tory support will increase once again.
How much is really all that remains to be seen.

Again, there are only two weeks or so until a firmer "show of hands" is made.
So we will soon see.