The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

cogito wrote: »

The people of Aberdeen have a right to expect that those they have elected to represent them should get on with delivering local services instead of playing silly games.

You could of course say the same about the Nats in Holyrood who seem to have forgotten why they were ever elected in the first place.

Nothing really to do with the SNP. It was Dugdale's call to make and she made it then suspended them. The photo shoot at North Lanarkshire council didn't go too well for Labour councillors though, I'll admit that.

Protestors behind Labour & Tory councillors

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Nothing really to do with the SNP. It was Dugdale's call to make and she made it then suspended them. The photo shoot at North Lanarkshire council didn't go too well for Labour councillors though, I'll admit that.

Who are the protestors ? The two at the back of the two holding the banner?

.string.

Actually that's an interesting thought, a centrist Scottish Unionist party able to join either Tory or Labour parties to form a UK government.

Real influence at Westminster.

I could live with that but only if it is a Unionist party.

Edit: I wonder what our old friend skintmacflint thinks of that. He was of the opinion that at some time Unionist parties would coalesce. Hope he's OK.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

As a good read, it's a bit of a struggle I must admit. But there is a good exposure to some of the issues (it's an article not a judgement by the way). There are comments at the end of it which are worth reading. The closing statement is


I recommend those interested read those comments

It is difficult to read such an article without selectively selecting from it which you have done and I have done, but, noting that, what I take from it is that the conduct of the referendum is one which the devolved parliament is best placed to conduct but the agreement on their being one is up to the UK Parliament.

With respect to the matter of a consultation , the article seems to confirm what I have written previously, that a consultancy can be done if it does not have the intent of achieving independence. That being so to be legal it would have to be argued by the SNP Scottish Government that was not the aim but if they strayed from that either by it's phrasing or their actions it would become illegal. It would be amusing indeed to observe SNP contortions on that one.

Very messy indeed. A long long time spent in arguing.

Just for the record I said it was a good read, not a judgement. I wouldn't be counting the comments underneath of any endorsement of anything either way string to be frank. A few of the people's names there I recognise from both pro and anti-indy stances from Twitter and elsewhere.

It should also be recognised that this article focuses only the referendum issue and legalities. This part is the crux of the matter and also references the recent Miller case concerning Brexit.

However, this is not the logic of the Scottish devolution settlement. In Scotland, unless the power to consult is reserved, then it is devolved. There are no provision in the Act to suggest that the power to consult is tailored to devolved matters. Advisory referendums are a form of public consultation. They enable both governments and both Parliaments to work out what people think.

In R (Miller & Dos Santos) v. Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union [2017] UKSC 5, the Supreme Court said the referendum on EU membership was ‘politically advisory’ because the European Union Referendum Act 2015 did not include a legally enforceable obligation on the executive to respond to the referendum outcome. The same would be true if Scotland were to hold a referendum on similar terms.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Who are the protestors ? The two at the back of the two holding the banner?

No idea, I just saw this on Twitter.

.string.

@Shakey - I could make a selective quote in reply (relating to the intent of a consultation) but think I should spare us both the inevitable tedium of searching through that legalese and making our separate lay conclusions. I think it would not be good for the sanity of either of us. Enough for people here to read it and come to their own conclusions,

But thanks for linking it.

Shaka_Zulu

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I'm not really that bothered to be honest, it was all explained via an independent ( no party ) councillor in my local town pages yesterday.

Shakey frae Beith then

Donald Reid!

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Just for the record I said it was a good read, not a judgement. I wouldn't be counting the comments underneath of any endorsement of anything either way string to be frank. A few of the people's names there I recognise from both pro and anti-indy stances from Twitter and elsewhere.

It should also be recognised that this article focuses only the referendum issue and legalities. This part is the crux of the matter and also references the recent Miller case concerning Brexit.

There's no constitutional overstep with the EU referendum. Westminster was in charge all the way. They're not comparable situations.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

@Shakey - I could make a selective quote in reply (relating to the intent of a consultation) but think I should spare us both the inevitable tedium of searching through that legalese and making our separate lay conclusions. I think it would not be good for the sanity of either of us. Enough for people here to read it and come to their own conclusions,

But thanks for linking it.

string, that's fine. However, Tricky and I got quite 'heated' ( in a debating sense of course ) on this issue many times before you returned. I wanted to make it clear that this article only really covers the legalities of a referendum.

Because it's common to get stuck in this constitutional issues are reserved back and forth cycle like we kept doing. This article deals with the Scottish Parliament having the right or not to consult.

Shakethedisease

Shaka_Zulu wrote: »

Shakey frae Beith then

Donald Reid!

That's one of the local pages I follow. And not for over 20 years now, I moved from the Garnock Valley to live in England for a long time before coming back to Scotland. But no more cyber stalking if you please. That's quite enough of my personal details online. Cheers.

( ps and no, I'm not one of the commentators on those pages either. I never, ever post on any of them. And certainly not about politics ! ).