The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

dharm999

Generali wrote: »

Yup. The UK is a country full of idiots voting about things they know nothing about.

Go on, I urge Scotland to vote for independence. Please vote poverty. I would welcome your slide. Vote stupid, everyone else is.

It's a difficult one, would we be worse off being independent, with all that entails, or stay in the union, with the prospect of a recession because of Brexit. Frying pans and fires spring to mind. As someone said, can't remember who, maybe it's time time Scotland ' took back control'. Now where did I hear that?

dharm999

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Yet you want Scotland to be independent of the UK. Totally illogical. Similar and far more complex issues would entail.

Logic, and reason don't apply any more. Similar issues, yes, more complex? Scotland in the EU, would mean not having to go through the long process that the UK will have to go through to exit, I suspect it would be a simpler and shorter process for Scotland to exit from Uk and join the EU, than for UK to exit from the EU

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Anyway, where is Hamish? Anyone know? I haven't seen any posts. I suppose he is despairing like so many of us......Hamish, pitch up and give us your thoughts about where you think Scotland goes from here. I may not always agree but I do enjoy your posts ( mostly :-)) Cheers

I'm in Europe for 2 weeks on a mix of business and holiday with the popcorn in hand;)

Dont like typing on the phone so not posting much but still reading

Condensed version of what's going on at the moment....

- brexit leadership absolutely bricking it - as the reality of the short to mid term economic carnage becomes obvious none of them want to be associated with it

- Cameron resignation leaked to the MPs before he did it - hence the hasty letter begging him to stay - Cameron knows what comes next economically and wants nothing to do with it

- there's some private polling going around just now that shows a huge level of buyers remorse - a lot of people voted out as a protest vote but genuinely believed we'd stay in

- treasury going mental behind the scenes - they know what's coming to tax revenues and are pushing for an emergency budget sooner than later

- BOE has been shoring up banks with huge liquidity support

- Big business is reading the riot act to Tory HQ that we must stay in the single market no matter what so make it happen at any cost

As for scotland - too soon to tell

If the uk ends up remaining in the single market - like Norway - there's no need for or realistic prospect of Indy

If the lunatics on the far right actually try to take us out of that as well - AND there is a way to keep Euro membership as the remaining part of the state - then Scottish Indy is going to happen and even I would vote for it

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Also worth noting - I wouldn't yet rule out the prospect of a late deal being done that keeps Britain in the EU or the single market, with a second referendum to confirm - too many competing visions of what 'out' looks like to say there was any democratic mandate for a particular set of options

elantan

* hands over the popcorn to Hamish*

Got loads here if anyone else wants some ... it's been brilliant watching it all unravel

And to think some people think politics is boring

[Deleted User]

Hi Hamish.

Good to see that you didn't resort to the glass of brandy and revolver....:D

Have you seen my suggestion on the other thread?

"The only solution..... wait for it...... would be for England and Wales to have a referendum on independence form the rUK, leaving Scotland and NI as the UK and continuing member state - result! Everyone happy"

What do you think?

WR

Firetastic

elantan wrote: »

* hands over the popcorn to Hamish*

Got loads here if anyone else wants some ... it's been brilliant watching it all unravel

And to think some people think politics is boring

I used to be one of the people that thought Politics was boring. I still remember my Politics lecturer at college come on you have to take an interest in what's going on in Politics. When I was a child I used to watch the television and think I will never be interested in that boring adult stuff.

Now I'm really interested in what's going on in the political world. In fact off now to watch the Question Time special. No prizes for guessing what it is about.

kabayiri

What's holding up Nicola Sturgeon with her plan to hold another indy referendum?

Surely the political mood and conditions must be in her favour now?

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

What's holding up Nicola Sturgeon with her plan to hold another indy referendum?

Surely the political mood and conditions must be in her favour now?

Because she's starting from the position of trying to keep Scotland in the EU by any means available. A referendum is just one of those means. Once the Scottish Govt has had talks with the EU, and can present a case to the Scottish people and what we can expect over our EU status, then it'll happen then if it needs to.

EU talks first.

I suspect the Scottish Govt will attempt to inherit the UK's status ( in some sort of modified form ) as detailed roughly below. This way Scotland won't have to leave, then join. Instead when Article 50 is invoked, it will only cover England and Wales. ( NI has question marks too )... The below isn't set in stone. But that's what I would expect the Scottish Govt to lobby for over the coming few weeks. Ambitious sure, but don't ask, don't get.

We're all in uncharted waters at the moment regarding the EU.

Although Article 50 TEU only prescribes the procedure for a Member State (e.g. the UK) to leave the EU, this provision can also serve to govern the withdrawal of only a part of a state (e.g. England, Wales and Northern-Ireland) and as a legal basis to keep an independent Scotland in the EU in the context of a Brexit – under the condition that there is a political consensus for this among the three parties involved (i.e. the EU, Scotland and the UK minus Scotland).

The negotiations foreseen in Article 50 TEU would then have two main aims: defining the EU’s relationship with the UK (minus Scotland) post-Brexit and adapting the terms of the UK’s EU membership to Scotland (i.e. adjusting them to Scotland’s size). While under international law, Scotland would become a new legal entity, in the EU legal order it could remain being regarded as the Member State that joined in 1973.


At least one remaining difficulty (under international law) would be the succession of obligations in relation to the many mixed agreements concluded between the EU and the Member States (on the one side) and third countries (on the other side). For each of these treaties, an agreement should be reached with each third state concerned on the proper identity of its ‘UK’ counterparty. Still, from the perspective of the EU legal order this solution would allow Scotland to keep the UK’s opt-outs (subject to a possible renegotiation in the Article 50 TEU procedure) and it would allow for a smooth transition between being part of the EU as a region of a Member State and as a Member State in its own right.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/a-brexit-could-make-it-easier-for-scotland-to-join-the-eu-as-an-independent-state/

Thrugelmir

dharm999 wrote: »

Logic, and reason don't apply any more. Similar issues, yes, more complex? Scotland in the EU, would mean not having to go through the long process that the UK will have to go through to exit, I suspect it would be a simpler and shorter process for Scotland to exit from Uk and join the EU, than for UK to exit from the EU

Scotland is now where close to meeting the criteria for EU entry. Nor has the machinery in place to operate fully independently. Nicola is playing a game that could back fire as spectacularly as Cameron's.