Deal Breakers in relationships

onlyroz

Tigsteroonie wrote: »

i thought that was an agnostic, as opposed to an atheist?

An agnostic is a 50:50 fence-sitter who is hedging their bets. Anybody with a scientific mind should be willing to change their position when presented with sufficient evidence.

On the Spectrum of Theistic Probability, most atheists put themselves at number 6:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_of_theistic_probability

Mr_Toad

heuchera wrote: »

I don't know why people say this!

I suppose if you wanted to nit-pick you could define it as absence of a belief in the existence of deities, but that's just another way of saying they don't believe in deities.

Atheists are people who believe that god or gods (or other supernatural beings) are man-made constructs, myths and legends or who believe that these concepts are not meaningful.

Actually this is spot on.

Atheism is an absence of belief that deities do exist it is not a belief that they don't exist. While this appears to be opposite sides of the same coin and most people would argue semantics or nit picking they are very different things.

Language is a wonderful thing but it is also a minefield to trap even the cleverest of people.

Petra_70

BarryBlue wrote: »

At last, a serious point on the subject.

Everyone who is brought up in a society is drip-fed the beliefs of that society, including religion. For instance, in an islamic society nobody discovers, say, christianity as a belief system as the information is simply not available to them. Atheism, the logical conclusion, would get them into serious trouble.

Without any belief system present, everybody would come to their own conclusion and it would obviously not be all the same thing. The ancients all had all sorts of ideas but they all came down to keeping people under control. I believe that the more sophisticated and well-educated a society, the less relevance religion has to it, which is why Western religions are destined to die out in due course.

Hope that helps, and thanks for not hurling insults which is the normal par for the course here.

You are correct about this. Hurling insults ARE par for the course when it comes to this subject, and I am pleased to see that you have stopped doing it.

By the way religion will never die out.

You keep telling yourself that though if it brings you comfort.

theoretica

Surely being atheist is as much of a range as being Christian - from the Pope to the occasional Christmas carol and maybe for a wedding. Similarly atheists range from a staunchly held position and obsessing about religion down to would say probably not if pushed, but don't really think about it.

onlyroz

theoretica wrote: »

Surely being atheist is as much of a range as being Christian - from the Pope to the occasional Christmas carol and maybe for a wedding. Similarly atheists range from a staunchly held position and obsessing about religion down to would say probably not if pushed, but don't really think about it.

Sure, I know plenty of "I've-not-really-thought-about-it-ists". My brother is one of them. He identifies as an atheist but was happy enough to get married in a church, because his wife wanted to (I think to get a pretty back-drop to the wedding photos).

BarryBlue

onlyroz wrote: »

Probably not very many - but you wouldn't expect such people to be Christians or Muslims would you?

This is exactly the point. Nobody would ever independently come to the conclusions peddled by any of the big religions. It is simply not possible for millions of people to all conclude the same thing, which is why I regard such organisations as phoney. It is all about indoctrination and conformity . An example is the concept that all of those American politicians conveniently believe the exact same things in order to further their careers.

heuchera wrote: »

Nobody exists in a vacuum. All knowledge, pretty much, is passed down to us from someone else.

Religious people (at their worst) might believe they are morally superior, but not intellectually.

As for all available evidence being on the side of atheism, you can't prove the non-existence of something

Atheism is a set of beliefs, much like religions, in that respect.

All knowledge can be passed down. Religion is not knowledge, however, as it is belief based upon no proof. People may all learn the same proven knowledge but it makes no sense that people would all believe the same things without proof.

Yes, religion does give people a false sense of morality. It also gives a false sense of intellectual superiority too in many cases. However, us atheists are not permitted to debate this here, which is why I find it necessary to have most of those people on my ignore list. It is a real shame it has to be so.

You are right that you cannot prove a negative, but it is not necessary to do so. People making outrageous claims have the onus to prove them. The Flying Spaghetti Monster demonstrates this point exactly. Atheists make no claim that anything supernatural exists, therefore have nothing to prove. It is not a belief at all, it is the exact opposite of belief.

onlyroz wrote: »

I think you're misunderstanding the meaning of the word "belief", which requires the acceptance of something without proof.

Atheists don't "believe" there is no god. They have simply decided that there is insufficient evidence for their existence. If such evidence were to present itself then the atheist would change their position.

Exactly so. It is rejection of belief without proof. The opposite of that is knowledge. That's why, as societies become more sophisticated and gain knowledge, religions will become less relevant and eventually disappear.

To refer this back to the point of the thread, it is clear to me that it would be impossible to live in a relationship with someone who not only had this 'belief' but put it above the relationship in importance. Your partner and family come before anything. I have seen a few marriages fall apart because one of them has thought otherwise.

BarryBlue

onlyroz wrote: »

Sure, I know plenty of "I've-not-really-thought-about-it-ists". My brother is one of them. He identifies as an atheist but was happy enough to get married in a church, because his wife wanted to (I think to get a pretty back-drop to the wedding photos).

Lots of people do that for the photos, having never been in a church in their lives. It is a hypocrisy I could never have done. However, if they want to use a church as a photo set, that's fair enough, since religions receive plenty of taxpayers' money, even from atheists. Churches are businesses, after all.

ripplyuk

Reading through this thread, I've realised that I'm not that fussy. My only true deal breakers would be cheating and violence of any kind, or even a threat of it.

I have a partner and I wish he didn't cut his toenails beside me or wash only when encouraged to. It would be nice if he was tidier and a bit more sensible financially but none of these are deal breakers. I think we all sound bad on paper but the person as a whole is much more than that.

Having said that, all this talk about beliefs has made me think. My partner and I are both humanists but I think if he had been religious it might have made a difference. I wonder if I could have the same respect for his judgement if he believed in things without any evidence. Not just believe, but live his life by it, and put it above all else.

I have religious relatives, including my grandmother whom I love dearly, but I don't think I'd choose that in a partner.

Anatidaephobia

Petra_70 wrote: »

Some atheists are amongst the most arrogant, self-important, and sanctimonious people I know, and are quite often a lot less clever than they make out!

BarryBlue wrote: »

I would say without doubt that many religious folks regard themselves as superior in intellect. They love being on some sort of pedestal and tell others how to live their lives.

I think it's safe to say that this is simply something common to all humans. When people believe they are right, they may become arrogant and display their superiority which is not always pleasant to behold. The subject matter is irrelevant; it has nothing to do with religion or atheism! It's just a people thing

coolcait

Anatidaephobia wrote: »

I think it's safe to say that this is simply something common to all humans. When people believe they are right, they may become arrogant and display their superiority which is not always pleasant to behold. The subject matter is irrelevant; it has nothing to do with religion or atheism! It's just a people thing

Exactly this.