Apple iPhone - Error 53 - Device Bricked

Altarf

wealdroam wrote: »

Do you think that preventing any use of the phone is a proportionate remedy?

As I said about two pages back, I think it is proportionate to turn off any feature that could compromise security.

So any feature that costs money, which aside from Apple Pay would include calls, texts, and data.

Any feature that reveals personal information, contacts, photos, location history, etc.

Other than that, fine, but really what is left.

cookie365

Altarf wrote: »

As I said about two pages back, I think it is proportionate to turn off any feature that could compromise security.

So any feature that costs money, which aside from Apple Pay would include calls, texts, and data.

Any feature that reveals personal information, contacts, photos, location history, etc.

Other than that, fine, but really what is left.

All of this is irrelevant if the customer didn't agree at the time of purchase that Apple could do this.

Rosemary7391

How is it a security issue? Surely no is daft enough to think that a missing device is in any way secure?

Altarf

cookie365 wrote: »

All of this is irrelevant if the customer didn't agree at the time of purchase that Apple could do this.

More relevant is what does the customer agree to when they do the software upgrade, as that is what bricks the phone. You do read the thousands of words of legalise before hitting the update button?

At the end of the day, Apple can set whatever conditions it wants on its software upgrades, and if that is "don't break the security by getting a hamfisted repair in a dodgy backstreet shop", then so be it.

powerful_Rogue

Im not sure why you keep calling this a "hamfisted repair". One case in question, the phone worked perfectly for 4 months after the repair was carried out. It only stopped working when Apple released an iOS update.

Also you keep going on about security - Its hardly a great security feature if it only "bricks" your device after you've updated the system software.

Im presuming you must have read the iOS upgrade t&cs', as such can you point out the part allowing them to brick a device?

AJXX

powerful_Rogue wrote: »

Im not sure why you keep calling this a "hamfisted repair". One case in question, the phone worked perfectly for 4 months after the repair was carried out.

Define "perfectly" - Did the TouchID work? If not then it's far from a "perfect" repair.

Given your hypothetical situation (in your OP), if the repairer advises that the TouchID will not work after a repair then I'd personally question why this would be? I mean yes you may want a cheap repair, you may not even care that TouchID no longer works, but surely you'd want a £600 piece of hardware to be fully functional regardless for re-sale reasons etc...?

Also you keep going on about security - Its hardly a great security feature if it only "bricks" your device after you've updated the system software.

But again - perhaps it is a good security feature if the end result is it prevents the device from running with a 3rd party/modified piece of the security hardware? (again I'm not saying TouchID is anything special, but there is the possibility that a malicious sensor could come into production at some stage).

Apple seems to have put an awful lot into Apple Pay, banking apps linking with TouchID and overall creating a "secure" end product etc... I can certainly see why they would take a hard stance on this.

It only stopped working when Apple released an iOS update

This keeps being repeated as if Apple released the latest iOS update specifically to disable these phones - however if you look at the objective data, this error has been occurring to modified devices for years - it's only getting publicity now because of the Telegraph article and the very recent iOS upgrade.

As I said before, I suspect this is some sort of post update hardware check which occurs after every update.

powerful_Rogue

As stated in the original post - When the phone was taken to the repair shop the customer was advised that TouchID would not work after the repair as only Apple have the technology to relink the sensor to the SecureID. The customer was happy with this and had a working phone for 4 months before Apple rolled out the update.

This is also happening to people that havent even had a repair carried out on their phones. Any kind of damage that means the TouchID sensor becomes detatched from the secure enclave means Apple will brick your phone.

Im presuming the two of you arguing in Apples favour must be huge Apple fans. Cant imagine any other situation where a company would kill your device for no reason and people actually support that action.

So how is this a good security feature if it only happens after an iOS update?!

AJXX

powerful_Rogue wrote: »

Thought this might make an intersting discussion as its currently in the news.

powerful_Rogue wrote: »

Im presuming the two of you arguing in Apples favour must be huge Apple fans. Cant imagine any other situation where a company would kill your device for no reason and people actually support that action.

So, did you want a "discussion" (which is what we have here - people with various opinions) or did you just want everyone to blindly agree with you whilst we sharpen our pitchforks?

Not sure why you asked for a "discussion" then dismiss views from those who are simply giving their opinions as "huge Apple fans".

I've never agreed that disabling the device entirely is an appropriate action - what I have done is attempted to look at it from Apples side and throw some reason behind why they may have done so instead of just saying "omg apple r terrible"...

powerful_Rogue

AJXX wrote: »

So, did you want a "discussion" (which is what we have here - people with various opinions) or did you just want everyone to blindly agree with you whilst we sharpen our pitchforks?

Not sure why you asked for a "discussion" then dismiss views from those who are simply giving their opinions as "huge Apple fans".

I've never agreed that disabling the device entirely is an appropriate action - what I have done is attempted to look at it from Apples side and throw some reason behind why they may have done so instead of just saying "omg apple r terrible"...

Discussion in regards to consumer rights.

Its all well and good people shouting "Apple do it for security" - If thats the case, why does it only happen when Apple update the iOS and not as soon as the TouchID sensor is replaced/becomes faulty.

A far fetched scenerio, but along the same lines. Microsoft have stopped issuing security updates for people using Windows XP. What if Microsoft decided to "brick" any PC running Windows XP as it may pose a risk to that persons security.

AJXX

powerful_Rogue wrote: »

Discussion in regards to consumer rights.

As far as I can see nobody has actually posted anything with regards to consumer rights so far - probably because this a very unique situation.

Its all well and good people shouting "Apple do it for security" - If thats the case, why does it only happen when Apple update the iOS and not as soon as the TouchID sensor is replaced/becomes faulty.

Because it's likely that the hardware verification is only triggered as part of the restore/update process instead of each time the phone is booted? The problem is none of us actually know enough detail to say exactly why this happens or for what reason - I suspect only Apple themselves know this.

You have presented an argument which has been discussed and alternative views provided - nobody is forcing to to accept these as gospel but at the same time it's a little petty to just dismiss them as coming from "huge Apple fans" simply because you don't agree with them.

By all means this is a great thread and a fantastic technical discussion - but the simple fact is we're all speculating on how this works.