If we vote for Brexit what happens

mwpt

Conrad wrote: »

Yes I've seen this argument put over and again, but once more it starts out with the assumption will will have to bend over and accept such terms but this is simply not the case of you consider ALL the evidence and not resort to simply regurgitate the OPENING positions expressed by EU Chiefs.

All I can say is think a bit more latterly, not in a paint by numbers fashion and learn to question everything. Don't so readily fall for standard recieved wisdom memes

I'm not being rude, I'm just clumsy in my narratives

But you are not understanding me. I think free trade and free movement, but outside of the EU, is a good deal for the UK and one we should pursue. I am opening up to your optimism and think that we will be in a good position to strike such a deal. What sort of better deal would you want?

Conrad

Samsonite1 wrote: »

Don't be hysterical yourself. I said that until anything actually happens, people will moan about the uncertainty. That is the pain. Things are not exactly rosy today. I have enough foresight to see that they will improve, but please do not peddle your unfounded opinions on what is happening right now. I think it will improve, but I am just explaining why the moaning will continue in the interim. Do you understand?

I understand some people are easily spooked, but I prefer thinking in a contrarian manner and less in a sort of standard manner informed by know nothing commentator journalists

Think like an investor; why on earth would you want to invest in the malfunctioning hugely risk laden EU? Why in fact invest in the USA with its $20 trillion Govt debt and 2 protectionist Presidential candidates?

Surely you would invest in the new confident nimble Britain turning her face globally, the place where business focus is now everthing as we carve a new place in the world?

The only reason we may have a lull is due to prats like Carney talking us down to prove thier predictive capacity was correct

wotsthat

mrginge wrote: »

If you read the article originally linked to you will see that DD has a very clear opinion on timescales, who will be involved, when we would expect to invoke 50, that he will aim for free market access but will not be phased by the EU demanding WTO rules.

Those are fundamentals. They are a clear indication of where he will go.

Now that we've got that out of the way and you seem to believe that this is not a positive step forward, can you tell us what you would like to happen instead.

I've read the article. There isn't a plan. There aren't the fundamentals of a plan. Backtrack and call it the 'fundamentals' omitting the word plan if you like but there isn't a plan.

One will appear but please don't kid me, or worse, yourself that work on a plan started any earlier than today.

If it was me. I would've called the EU's bluff and accepted their red line of free movement to keep trade with the EU flowing unabated. I would then work through the queue of nations all desperate to trade with the UK. If it turned out Conrad's third age of prosperity was a real thing then I'd go back to the EU in a position of strength and negotiate a better deal.

Conrad

mwpt wrote: »

But you are not understanding me. I think free trade and free movement, but outside of the EU, is a good deal for the UK and one we should pursue. I am opening up to your optimism and think that we will be in a good position to strike such a deal. What sort of better deal would you want?

Free movement is the very thing that is hurting so many working class people. They want thier dignity and high wages back, an impossibility in the prescience of unlimited labour

Empathy is required to understand this. UKIP are wholesale wiping Labour out as lefties no longer have any answers to today modern world

Conrad

wotsthat wrote: »

I've read the article. There isn't a plan. There aren't the fundamentals of a plan. Backtrack and call it the 'fundamentals' omitting the word plan if you like but there isn't a plan.

One will appear but please don't kid me, or worse, yourself that work on a plan started any earlier than today.

If it was me. I would've called the EU's bluff and accepted their red line of free movement to keep trade with the EU flowing unabated. I would then work through the queue of nations all desperate to trade with the UK. If it turned out Conrad's third age of prosperity was a real thing then I'd go back to the EU in a position of strength and negotiate a better deal.

Well your approach of broadcasting your hand up front would be one way of negotiating but not mine.

Also this whole thing is evolving and rightly so, you just don't scribble a revolution on the back of a fag packet

I fail to understand why this is all such a mysterious concept for some

mrginge

mwpt wrote: »

I haven't been on the fence. It isn't easy to follow all posts here but you would have seen this was my favoured option since June 24th.

I don't particularly care about the UK following EU directives, they exist for a reason (mostly to standardise trade and stop the EU partners from undercutting each other, collective bargaining power type thing). They never really impacted my life that I could notice. But since we are where we are and have a mandate to "leave the EU" but we cannot escape geography and they are still a large trading partner, I am ok with pursuing free trade, free movement but not subject to certain EU directives.

Which directives?

wotsthat

Conrad wrote: »

Well your approach of broadcasting your hand up front would be one way of negotiating but not mine.

Also this whole thing is evolving and rightly so, you just don't scribble a revolution on the back of a fag packet

I fail to understand why this is all such a mysterious concept for some

Psst. It's an internet forum - the UK's negotiating position isn't harmed by me articulating my thoughts.

If you want to keep it a big secret what you'd do then I respect that. After all this is a password protected board on an internet backwater and Merkel might be hanging on every word.

Conrad

Just hearing a bitter Bremain journalist on BBC News still saying we've been put to the back of the US trade queue, !!!!!!, this level of ignorance is staggering.

Conrad

wotsthat wrote: »

Psst. It's an internet forum - the UK's negotiating position isn't harmed by me articulating my thoughts.

If you want to keep it a big secret what you'd do then I respect that. After all this is a password protected board on an internet backwater and Merkel might be hanging on every word.

Psst, for ages you've said Brexit has no plan as you have not see one...., such as none from D Davis

Just pointing out its maybe not so smart for key players to reveal thier full hand just yet

mrginge

wotsthat wrote: »

I've read the article. There isn't a plan. There aren't the fundamentals of a plan. Backtrack and call it the 'fundamentals' omitting the word plan if you like but there isn't a plan.

One will appear but please don't kid me, or worse, yourself that work on a plan started any earlier than today.

So you must now be very pleased that work on the plan has started. And it only took three weeks! That's pretty good going don't you think.

If it was me. I would've called the EU's bluff and accepted their red line of free movement to keep trade with the EU flowing unabated. I would then work through the queue of nations all desperate to trade with the UK. If it turned out Conrad's third age of prosperity was a real thing then I'd go back to the EU in a position of strength and negotiate a better deal.

So what you're saying is that you would appoint an international trade minister (maybe someone like Liam fox?) to look at setting up these deals while delaying article 50?

Sounds to me like you're actually delighted by today's events.