If we vote for Brexit what happens

baza52

Samsonite1 wrote: »

No you are wrong. We cannot find the talent and with multi-million pound deals that rely on having people in place, we have to hire someone with the skills. This is fact, there is simply not the volume of skill in this country in the right areas. I wish it was different.

so there is no one in the UK capable of filling that job?

Samsonite1

baza52 wrote: »

so there is no one in the UK capable of filling that job?

Bang on - we mostly hire British and they are highly prioritised, but we have to take others to fill the roles as they are ready to go. Time is critical and we cannot wait for more British people to get the right experience or qualifications.

It could even just be down to UK people not studying the right subjects, but whatever the reason is, there are not enough of the right people here.

gfplux

Samsonite1 wrote: »

In my sector - legal business analysis skills. We always want to recruit locally but with a lack of talent and a high demand, we have to look to the EU. EU legal skills are more easily transferred to UK-centric needs than other countries.

I agree about nobody booting out people, but I know some of these people and they are very scared right now. No promises made yet, so until they are these people will remain scared.

And who would believe a Politiciens promises.
When it is written in the leave treaty we might relax a little.
Although by that time many highly skilled people (with EU passports) may have moved out of the U.K.
Samsonite1. It might be a little early yet but have you noticed any difference in the recruitment market.

CLAPTON

Samsonite1 wrote: »

In my sector - legal business analysis skills. We always want to recruit locally but with a lack of talent and a high demand, we have to look to the EU. EU legal skills are more easily transferred to UK-centric needs than other countries.

I agree about nobody booting out people, but I know some of these people and they are very scared right now. No promises made yet, so until they are these people will remain scared.

how many people are really essential to import?
we have about 9 million immigrants : I am reluctant to acknowldege a genuine skills shortage of 9 million.
maybe we just let the price rise and attract all those UK people back from overseas

anyway, I guesss that there are UK people scared in europe who might be kicked out of their jobs

System

baza52 wrote: »

Knife crime UP in London FACT https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/20/metropolitan-police-say-knife-up-18-in-london

Ah. Yes. It is indeed a FACT that knife crime is up last year.

Strange that in the 3 years prior to that it reduced while more and more dirty foreigners came in though.

System

baza52 wrote: »

So far I have not seen any FACTS to back up your claims.

I didn't make any

baza52 wrote: »

what do YOU think has caused the rise in knife crime, Sex crimes, waiting lists etc?

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that immigration isn't the sole reason of any of those things.

vivatifosi

baza52 wrote: »

My view on the EU was based on how it had changed from what we initially signed up for.
It was obvious the majority wanted immigration capped.
The remain cam said things like " we are working towards" and we will be restricting FULL benefits until they have paid in.
They could offer 99% of the full value of benefits and still be speaking the truth.
Why not say we will STOP non British nationals from receiving ANY benefits......

Simple answer is because they can not.
Its like saying we will stop the majority of EU citizens coming to Britain. All that means is that we could allow up to 50% of them in which could be a huge number.

How is that being honest?

I voted remain and feel that Cameron did gain some concessions on this. However I also feel that the EU missed a huge opportunity to avoid these problems by conceding more. They just did not factor an out vote into their equations.

The original Treaty of Rome is based on the free movement of Labour, not people. So I don't understand why people are allowed to eg move to the UK, set up a small business with a view to working a few hours per week and then claim benefits. Is that really the spirit of the original treaty?

Equally I think coming to a country as a worker, you should have limited access to services until you've paid in for a period (say 5 years). You shouldn't have access to unemployment benefits, in work benefits or child tax credits until the end of this period. You should have access to a doctor (anyone could fall ill) and if your children are here then schooling, but that's pretty much it.

There are an awful lot of very hard working EU citizens who graft really hard without claiming anything, but everyone currently is tarred with the same brush. Such measures would sort out why people are coming over and lead to greater self-selection of people who really want to come to work. That in turn would lead to a reduction in numbers.

Further, my colleagues who come from the EU want this, they say they are fed up that people think they have just come here to ride a gravy train when patently they have not. However some people hear a foreign voice and think "taking our money".

Still, this is a philosophical debate now.

mwpt

vivatifosi wrote: »

I voted remain and feel that Cameron did gain some concessions on this. However I also feel that the EU missed a huge opportunity to avoid these problems by conceding more. They just did not factor an out vote into their equations.

The original Treaty of Rome is based on the free movement of Labour, not people. So I don't understand why people are allowed to eg move to the UK, set up a small business with a view to working a few hours per week and then claim benefits. Is that really the spirit of the original treaty?

Equally I think coming to a country as a worker, you should have limited access to services until you've paid in for a period (say 5 years). You shouldn't have access to unemployment benefits, in work benefits or child tax credits until the end of this period. You should have access to a doctor (anyone could fall ill) and if your children are here then schooling, but that's pretty much it.

There are an awful lot of very hard working EU citizens who graft really hard without claiming anything, but everyone currently is tarred with the same brush. Such measures would sort out why people are coming over and lead to greater self-selection of people who really want to come to work. That in turn would lead to a reduction in numbers.

Further, my colleagues who come from the EU want this, they say they are fed up that people think they have just come here to ride a gravy train when patently they have not. However some people hear a foreign voice and think "taking our money".

Still, this is a philosophical debate now.

I would be ok with that as a compromise. We should note of course that all of that was within our own power. As far as I understand the EU law says free movement of people and non discrimination. In other words, we are all EU citizens and the laws of a particular country must apply to all EU citizens equally. We have a non contributory benefits system, which means this applies to all EU citizens. If we changed our benefits system to a contribution based one, perhaps where any resident in the UK may only receive benefits after 5 years of living in the country, this would have satisfied your requirements above and left people born in the UK free to claim benefits from 5 years old.

Why didn't our own government do that?

My answer: The hard left would have stirred up the their frenzied twiterati and the media so that such a change would have seemed like Cameron was personally going round to the poor, smacking them onto the ground and taking their stuff. So the hard left should take a look at the outcomes their dogmatic stance produces.

padington

baza52 wrote: »

When I say something I am able to back it up with FACTS.
So far I have not seen any FACTS to back up your claims.

Your not willing to say what you feel is the truth are you, you would rather skate around the questions sitting on the fence.

what do YOU think has caused the rise in knife crime, Sex crimes, waiting lists etc?

We are all grown ups here and free speech IS allowed.
What are you afraid of? being shown up perhaps

Youth crime is way down, the discussions is why? Who knows but we're breeding more good eggs. Something is very right.

ruggedtoast

Joeskeppi wrote: »

Ah. Yes. It is indeed a FACT that knife crime is up last year.

Strange that in the 3 years prior to that it reduced while more and more dirty foreigners came in though.

Like Generali said once. You will never convince a racist that they aren't part of the master race.