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If we vote for Brexit what happens
Comments
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The structure of the referendum process was flawed from the outset, maybe deliberately so.
If you want to know if someone dislikes all immigrants then ask them for a honest answer. Likewise you can ask them variations of the question to learn more about their views.
The same can be said with value judgements on money in their pocket compared to intangibles like general congestion levels etc.
You can do all this. It's a bit of a logistical bind, but you can do it. We have had census style surveys before.
Or...you can choose to ask a simple question, which is actually a value judgement, and then construe all sorts of things about the respondent just from their single answer.
It's like me deciding a person is uncaring towards animals because they had a bacon butty for lunch.
The bad blood this whole process has caused is down to a small bunch of people, namely the Conservatives.0 -
Except it's pretty much debunked that he said anything of the kind.
No 'letter to a friend' in 1952 or speech at the UN (1952) has ever been unearthed where he said this.
Depends on the source you use, doesn't it? Pretty much anything can be 'debunked', with facts, statistics ad nauseum being provided.
The incredible (to me) fact is, however, that the EU certainly does seem to have been founded with this agenda in mind, and that this was deliberately kept from the people, who were never given a chance to vote for it or make their own decision to accept or reject it. It is ultimately the people who decide, not politicians and vested interests, who should be working for the people, not for themselves. Things haven't ended too well in history when this has not happened.0 -
TrickyTree83 wrote: »I would say it would be wrong to base your vote to remain on the dislike of a figurehead within the Leave campaign.
I would say it would be wrong to base your vote to remain on the perceived racism and xenophobia that is linked to the Leave campaign.
I would say it would be wrong to base your vote to remain on some of the arguments made by the official Leave campaign. Some of the things they have said have been complete rubbish, like putting the EU membership fee into the NHS whilst maintaining the other commitments that the EU currently fund - it won't make a dent! But there are others who do not get the same air time on the idiot box who make much more compelling arguments to Leave which I believe to be correct.
Would you vote to remain because of any of the above reasons? Because you can be damn sure there will be some who do. The Leave campaign has been run badly, an honest, common sense, pragmatic campaign moving away from the traditional way politics has been ran in this country for decades would have made the world of difference I believe.
I had the impression you were a leave voter, have you changed your mind? If not I fail to see why you would disagree with these points.
I am a leave supporter but that doesn't make me partisan in the sense that I suspend my belief in democracy for people to vote as they like : however irrational.0 -
I am a leave supporter but that doesn't make me partisan in the sense that I suspend my belief in democracy for people to vote as they like : however irrational.
As you wish. I don't suspend my belief in democracy either, I feel it is a civic duty to be well informed in order to cast the most appropriate vote pertinent to me and my beliefs/opinions. I feel the media and the official campaigns have failed in their duty to deliver that over the mass media.
The public were continually asking for facts and honest (not dodging) answers on such an important issue. They got ideological rhetoric ("pulling up the drawbridge"), bigotry ("stop making it all about immigration/refugees") and mis-truths ("we have a veto on Turkey/the EU budget so it's not even an issue").0 -
Depends on the source you use, doesn't it? Pretty much anything can be 'debunked', with facts, statistics ad nauseum being provided.
The incredible (to me) fact is, however, that the EU certainly does seem to have been founded with this agenda in mind, and that this was deliberately kept from the people, who were never given a chance to vote for it or make their own decision to accept or reject it. It is ultimately the people who decide, not politicians and vested interests, who should be working for the people, not for themselves. Things haven't ended too well in history when this has not happened.
Not really, he either said it or he didn't
Seems like Adrian Hilton said it, trying to use the put down paraphrase. 'Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers visible or invisible giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the worlds wealthiest and most prosperous people' Margaret Thatcher0 -
TrickyTree83 wrote: »As you wish. I don't suspend my belief in democracy either, I feel it is a civic duty to be well informed in order to cast the most appropriate vote pertinent to me and my beliefs/opinions. I feel the media and the official campaigns have failed in their duty to deliver that over the mass media.
The public were continually asking for facts and honest (not dodging) answers on such an important issue. They got ideological rhetoric ("pulling up the drawbridge"), bigotry ("stop making it all about immigration/refugees") and mis-truths ("we have a veto on Turkey/the EU budget so it's not even an issue").
I would like it all to be better but that is not in my power to change so I have to accept our somewhat imperfect democracy.0 -
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Significant numbers vote for Brexit in ‘unofficial’ online polls:
Poll Station UK
Leave - 81%
Remain - 16%
Undecided - 3%
Total Votes: 141,842
http://www.pollstation.uk/eu-referendum/poll/
The Express
Leave – 87%
Remain – 10%
Undecided – 3%
Total Votes: 192,860
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/648583/Map-people-vote-EU-poll-bad-Cameron-project-fear-European-Union-Brussels
The Telegraph
Leave – 71%
Remain – 29%
Total Votes: 601,000
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/20/eu-referendum-poll-tracker-and-odds1/
Dajà vu?
EC Referendum 1975 - Labour's Peter Shore on Project Fear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j-Gb8Pk2Pk0 -
Would not put much weight on online polls.
But anyhow brexit will change nothing - business as usual,0 -
Significant numbers vote for Brexit in ‘unofficial’ online polls:
Poll Station UK
Leave - 81%
Remain - 16%
Undecided - 3%
Total Votes: 141,842
http://www.pollstation.uk/eu-referendum/poll/
The Express
Leave – 87%
Remain – 10%
Undecided – 3%
Total Votes: 192,860
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/648583/Map-people-vote-EU-poll-bad-Cameron-project-fear-European-Union-Brussels
The Telegraph
Leave – 71%
Remain – 29%
Total Votes: 601,000
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/20/eu-referendum-poll-tracker-and-odds1/
Dajà vu?
EC Referendum 1975 - Labour's Peter Shore on Project Fear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j-Gb8Pk2Pk
Totally disingenuous. These are not scientific polls, they are self selecting counts.Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0
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