If we vote for Brexit what happens

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

I don't think there's a plan to be vindictive on either side. Your bias has led you to cling to ill thought out comments and extrapolate them into a plot. No-one enters negotiations trying to deliberately damage their own people. However, mix politicians, ego, and a nice bit of media coverage and they won't be able to help themselves. That's foreign politicians as well as our favoured native born.

once again you agree with me : I have argued that the EU will simply do what is best for it's own people.
It is (some ) of the 'remainers' on this board that continually say that the EU27 will deliberately do harm to the UK even if it is harmful to the people of the EU.

I expect Brexit negotiations to lead to sub-optimal results for both parties as a result.

that every much depends upon the EU: if they agreed a free trade area for goods and service then I see no reason why the rsult should be sub-optimal.
I don't see that common VAT arrangements or external tariff and non tariff barriers are any benefit to either the EU27 or the UK.

Why aspects do you think will be sub optimal?

Luckily we'll have democracy back so when our native parliament decides we'll adopt EU law as per now and continue with free movement everyone will be happy as Larry. After all democracy is number one on everyone's list although I doubt the average voter will have spent more than 3 minutes researching the EU democratic process.

Your distain for your fellow citizens does you no credit.

Rinoa

Survation Leave +3

That's a 9% swing to Leave.

http://order-order.com/2016/06/16/leave-move-ahead-with-survation-too/

Mortgagefreeman

The PM is expected to visit Gibraltar to urge the 23,000 UK citizens entitled to vote to back remain.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36548175

He must be getting desperate!

TrickyTree83

Has anyone seen the allegations of electoral expenses fraud against the Conservatives?

If it's true and the seats were not won fairly, by-elections are called and the tories lose the seats and as a consequence their majority. Does that call into question the legal basis for a tory majority calling this referendum on the EU? Does it mean the result can be legally challenged?

Generali

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Has anyone seen the allegations of electoral expenses fraud against the Conservatives?

If it's true and the seats were not won fairly, by-elections are called and the tories lose the seats and as a consequence their majority. Does that call into question the legal basis for a tory majority calling this referendum on the EU? Does it mean the result can be legally challenged?

Probably not. Who knows really but I'd have my doubts.

Because Queen.

mayonnaise

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Has anyone seen the allegations of electoral expenses fraud against the Conservatives?

If it's true and the seats were not won fairly, by-elections are called and the tories lose the seats and as a consequence their majority. Does that call into question the legal basis for a tory majority calling this referendum on the EU? Does it mean the result can be legally challenged?

Moot point as the referendum result is not legally binding, merely advisory.

Generali

Generali wrote: »

Probably not. Who knows really but I'd have my doubts.

Because Queen.

mayonnaise wrote: »

Moot point as the referendum result is not legally binding, merely advisory.

Ah, there we are. mayonnaise (my favourite poster named after an emulsified sauce) knows!

Seriously though mayo, good point well made. Something I'd forgotten and I guess many others had too.

Rinoa

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Has anyone seen the allegations of electoral expenses fraud against the Conservatives?

If it's true and the seats were not won fairly, by-elections are called and the tories lose the seats and as a consequence their majority. Does that call into question the legal basis for a tory majority calling this referendum on the EU? Does it mean the result can be legally challenged?

There are plenty of claims and counter claims by all parties. Most seem to revolve around using their 'battle-bus', which should be national spend, to campaign for local candidates. Or in Nicola's case her SNP Jockcopter.

Here's an interesting one against Labour.

http://order-order.com/2016/05/26/cat-smith-expenses-cover-up/

The police have been given further time to investigate this.

Here's one for Nick Clegg.

http://order-order.com/2016/06/01/revealed-how-nick-clegg-cooked-the-books-for-17652/

In the fullness of time they'll probably all get away with it as all parties appear to have done similar stuff

Generali

Rinoa wrote: »

There are plenty of claims and counter claims by all parties. Most seem to revolve around using their 'battle-bus', which should be national spend, to campaign for local candidates. Or in Nicola's case her SNP Jockcopter.

Here's an interesting one against Labour.

http://order-order.com/2016/05/26/cat-smith-expenses-cover-up/

The police have been given further time to investigate this.

Here's one for Nick Clegg.

http://order-order.com/2016/06/01/revealed-how-nick-clegg-cooked-the-books-for-17652/

In the fullness of time they'll probably all get away with it as all parties appear to have done similar stuff

The alternative is a coalition between the Scottish Greens and Plyyd Cwyru (sp?) because they couldn't afford battle buses.

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

once again you agree with me : I have argued that the EU will simply do what is best for it's own people.
It is (some ) of the 'remainers' on this board that continually say that the EU27 will deliberately do harm to the UK even if it is harmful to the people of the EU.

Well you've been going on about the EU being vindictive to the detriment of their people for what seems like ever. I'm not 100% sure but I don't think you're a remainiac.

CLAPTON wrote: »

Why aspects do you think will be sub optimal?

If someone takes the view that the EU and UK are better together then by definition Brexit negotiations will lead to a sub-optimal results. Hopefully, should it happen, we can make the best of a bad job.

Plus the leave campaign will disintegrate following an out vote and the arguments will commence about what they actually meant by what they said. Taking control of borders, improving democracy, etc. - nice soundbites whilst working together but the players involved will have very different views on what they'll look like in practice.

Plus I'm suspicious of Johnson and Gove's motivations - I worry they are more politically motivated than most players. They might be tempted to negotiate soft to ensure success rather than hard and, potentially, have to be seen to compromise.

Plus the unintended consequences.

CLAPTON wrote: »

Your distain for your fellow citizens does you no credit.

Why? How many voters do you think have done more than 3 minutes research on the EU democratic process. I doubt that many, including those who love democracy like they they love their mothers, could tell you the difference between Commission and Parliament.