If we vote for Brexit what happens

CLAPTON

gfplux wrote: »

One, yes only one of the reasons that wealthy Chinese buy property in the UK is as a base for their children to Go to university here and then obtain a British passport that presently would allow them free acces to all EU country's.
After Brexit that reason to buy will disappear.

On balance would that be a good thing or a bad thing?

Tromking

Moby wrote: »

It's not ridiculous at all. Look at the bigger picture. At least Osborne and Cameron are on the middle of the road part of the Tory Party. The Brexiteers are right wing loons without exception who care nothing about working rights and public services. You'll be thanked of course for your position by people who are right wing anyway, but look at these politicians records. Surely you know about Grayling especially? They have nothing to offer working class people....we are the canon fodder for their person ambitions. They believe in unregulated free trade and evisceration of public services. Wolves in sheeps clothing!

I'll grant you Grayling is a singularly unimpressive politician, but I notice you ignore the 'right wing loon' who managed to beat all comers twice and was Mayor of left leaning and progressive London for 8 years. The bigger picture in this debate is not Labour vs Tory, to reduce it to factional politics is in my opinion a mistake for remainers like yourself. I look forward to the post Brexit revival in UK politics where the democratic will of the people will manifest itself in Governments of all colours, all free from EU influence of course.

gfplux

danlightbulb wrote: »

This is my concern also. EU are being stubborn to change right now, and in my opinion we deserve better. But when it actually happens the EU might look inwards at itself and say 'ah well maybe we should change then', then push forward into new deals without us.

On the other hand if we stay then the EU won't have any reason to learn its lesson. Either way we lose.

I still think this is an issue of EU's own making. They are too stubborn to change.

The EU is a very cumbersome organisation and changes very, very slowly.
I still hope (and have voted) to stay and that result will still effect the EU and it will change a little. Even with its self interest it want every country to stay.
If as it appears the vote is Brexit then I think the effect on the EU will be greater and they will do two things.
1) Make a lot of noise to the remaining country's that they listen and will become more transparent and change.
2) Do all they can to cause Britain as much uncertainty as possible. To publicly play very hard ball and string out any negotiations for as long as possible.
The object is to play to the media in all the remain country's that leaving is a BAD OPTION and they are in the process of CHANGE.

CLAPTON

gfplux wrote: »

The EU is a very cumbersome organisation and changes very, very slowly.
I still hope (and have voted) to stay and that result will still effect the EU and it will change a little. Even with its self interest it want every country to stay.
If as it appears the vote is Brexit then I think the effect on the EU will be greater and they will do two things.
1) Make a lot of noise to the remaining country's that they listen and will become more transparent and change.
2) Do all they can to cause Britain as much uncertainty as possible. To publicly play very hard ball and string out any negotiations for as long as possible.
The object is to play to the media in all the remain country's that leaving is a BAD OPTION and they are in the process of CHANGE.

I'm continually surprised at how people will stay with an organisation that they acknowledge will deliberately damage another nation and their own people.
No moral compass at all.

TrickyTree83

Kohoutek wrote: »

Okay, I will break it down for you:

If Russia attacks Latvia (a former member of the Soviet Union with a large Russian speaking population - remind you of another country Russia was recently at war with?), we are at war with Russia as a result of being a member of NATO.

Being at war with Russia, a country with an arsenal of thousands of nuclear weapons, could potentially have quite a large effect on quality of life in Britain. I would suggest to you that this could be worse than the Leave Campaign's claims about all the terrible things the EU does to the UK.

There's much less likely to be conflict with a large strong NATO bloc on Russia's doorstep.

I'm staggered that you're comparing the mutual defense of NATO nations with the EU who is responsible for butter lakes, perfectly curved bananas, dumping of fish, taxes on tampons, etc... one is an organisation which pools just enough sovereignty to do it's job. The other has taken far too much and doesn't use it effectively.

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

I'm continually surprised at how people will stay with an organisation that they acknowledge will deliberately damage another nation and their own people.
No moral compass at all.

I'd be surprised if EU negotiators were any more predisposed to cutting off their noses to spite their faces than UK negotiators.

I'd say it was a politician thing rather than something unique to foreigners.

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

I'd be surprised if EU negotiators were any more predisposed to cutting off their noses to spite their faces than UK negotiators.

I'd say it was a politician thing rather than something unique to foreigners.

I'm glad you agree with me, as I too think it is absurd to think the EU elite will be vindicate to the UK and damage their own people into the bargain.

It is deeply worrying though, that some many 'remainers' (at least on this board) believe that the EU27 will deliberation damage their own people to send a 'message' that you don't leave their organisation. And they want to be part of such an organisation; incredible.

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

I'm glad you agree with me, as I too think it is absurd to think the EU elite will be vindicate to the UK and damage their own people into the bargain.

It is deeply worrying though, that some many 'remainers' (at least on this board) believe that the EU27 will deliberation damage their own people to send a 'message' that you don't leave their organisation. And they want to be part of such an organisation; incredible.

Hmm. You've agreed there's probably no difference in the level of spite of UK vs EU politicians. What message does it send to the members of the UK that the UK elite will also be vindictive to the EU and damage their own people into the bargain.

Sweet music to the ears of the SNP.

Conrad

Clapton I would add, who wants to be part of a political union that implies it will treat it's neighbours in a harmful manner if they dare to be democratic independent states?

Have you seen the letter to Cameron today asking him to categorically confirm his position on Turkey. A top EU official has just said Turkey now has the open road into the EU

Conrad

wotsthat wrote: »

Hmm. You've agreed there's probably no difference in the level of spite of UK vs EU politicians. What message does it send to the members of the UK that the UK elite will also be vindictive to the EU and damage their own people into the bargain.

Sweet music to the ears of the SNP.

The EU will never be able to disrupt trade as it would harm EU citizens and force up borrowing costs. Things are on a knife edge what with potential further debt bomb issues from Greece, Italy and others. Disrupting trade could act like a bomb primer.

The Eastern border states take huge comfort from Britans military capability to project force, and our nuclear umbrella. Surely Remains understand this is an ace card for us?