If we vote for Brexit what happens

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Tromking wrote: »

Where's the evidence of this newly xenophobic and rascist UK

Arklight

The UK isn't newly xenophobic. The xenophobes and racists have just been holding their tongue for years, newly emboldened by a hate filled right wing press, and a misapprehension that they are part of a silent majority - led by the likes of Farage and Boris Johnson.


Prior to Brexit I used to hold my tongue for the most part when racists and bigots grumbled their views, to keep the peace. They seemed like anachronistic dinosaurs and we only had to wait for them to die out.


Now they get told, and if they don't like being told then tough. I think most "liberals" feel the same. The thing about these right wing snowflakes is that they have very thin skins though.

Mortgagefreeman

Arklight wrote: »

Prior to Brexit I used to hold my tongue for the most part when racists and bigots grumbled their views, to keep the peace.

Perhaps you ought to be a bit more choosy with the company you keep?

Conrad

Herzlos wrote: »

Do you understand how (a) NATO and (b) Trump work?

The NATO bill Trump is going on about, is each country aiming to spend 2% of GDP on defense, locally. No-one is going to be giving the US 2% of their GDP, and whilst Trump will make a lot of noise and show his ignorance, he'll back down like he always does.

If we stop paying a fee (something you want anyway), then that money is gone. We can use a continued fee as a bargaining position, but that'd make a lot of you apoplectic. So the EU will likely get less money from us, spend less money on us, and have to make a few changes in it's best interests. I'm not sure where the cuts will come from or how long they'll take to effect.

Part of our bargaining hand;


1) EU facing loss of our c£10bn pa club fee
2) They are facing an increase in military costs for sure and Trump is part of this dynamic (watch the EU conferences on increased military spends)
3) On top of all this they face a potential loss of trade with us IF they were to erect barriers


These 3 together add up to a compelling reason as to why they wont countenance hampering trade on top of their other money woes. Yes we might throw in a reduced fee, but that's not part of the argument I'm making right here.

Conrad

Arklight wrote: »

newly emboldened by a hate filled right wing press, and a misapprehension that they are part of a silent majority - led by the likes of Farage and Boris Johnson.

Why are Europeans and others in huge number CHOSING still to come to this nasty isle?


I think you have a very downbeat opinion of fair minded Britain. I don't encounter overt racism particularly and certainly not in the way I have in Italy or France.

always_sunny

cogito wrote: »

I do not hate everything about the EU, don't be ridiculous. That's nearly the same as accusing you of fawning adoration of the EU and I'm sure you wouldn't agree with that.

As for my point. Suppose I wanted to emigrate to the USA. I say to the US authorities that I want to live in your country but if I have any issues, my country's laws must prevail over yours. I would be laughed out of the country. The EU's absurd demand requires that their citizens rights should trump those of the host country. Which country could possibly agree to that?

And can you provide a single valid reason why UK law is not an appropriate or competent authority?

You make it sound like the ECJ has replaced British courts when it is far from it.
In your argument you should include how many cases (In %) from Britain are referred to the ECJ.

No one is arguing that British law is not appropriate, that is actually reflected by the small number of referrals to the ECJ though having an independent court can assist to ensure adherence.

The EU has strong policies about human rights which the UK is also benefitting.
Discrimination, gender inequality, slavery, etc are still quite rampant in the UK (despite the competent authorities).

Tromking

Conrad wrote: »

Why are Europeans and others in huge number CHOSING still to come to this nasty isle?


I think you have a very downbeat opinion of fair minded Britain. I don't encounter overt racism particularly and certainly not in the way I have in Italy or France.

For downbeat opinion read self loathing. The Remainiac narrative about the UK's latent xeonphobia and closet racism is as boring as it is erroneous. People like living and working here and long may it continue.

Conrad

Tromking wrote: »

For downbeat opinion read self loathing. The Remainiac narrative about the UK's latent xeonphobia and closet racism is as boring as it is erroneous. People like living and working here and long may it continue.

When I hear one of them on the radio running Britain down I get this sense they are incredibly spoilt. Millions if not billions from around the world would swap places to come to this nation that leads the world in so many ways, this small nation that came second at both Olympics, this beacon of culture, science, art and thought, the place where experts are on hand to help with your childs speech therapy or your pets cancer, the land that sends specialists across the world - even last night I turn on Horizon set in America and what do I see - a number of Brit scientists working on cosmological signals, we get everywhere.


I honestly have migrant clients that have been less than 5 years here building great lives, they reave about the opportunity in this free modest land where you can be who you want to be


The mainly African migrants that live in all the flats above and around my office have nice clothes, nice cars, lovely flats, I-phones, free NHS, free education, all manner of free adult study courses (one is training to be a lawyer), they tell me they are incredibly lucky to have secured a place in Britain. One minute they arrive destitute, the next they are a couple, both agency nurses pulling in over £85k pa, getting on the property ladder using the Govt 20% equity scheme, feeling safe from the terrors back home, free to express themselves, what an amazing nation this is

cogito

always_sunny wrote: »

You make it sound like the ECJ has replaced British courts when it is far from it.
In your argument you should include how many cases (In %) from Britain are referred to the ECJ.

No one is arguing that British law is not appropriate, that is actually reflected by the small number of referrals to the ECJ though having an independent court can assist to ensure adherence.

The EU has strong policies about human rights which the UK is also benefitting.
Discrimination, gender inequality, slavery, etc are still quite rampant in the UK (despite the competent authorities).

That isn't what I said. The point I am making is at after Brexit i.e. in the future, the EU want the ECJ to have supremacy over UK courts. How many or how few is irrelevant - one would be too many.

EU human rights have mainly been driven by the UK so we are hardly going to tear them up when we exit the EU. And to suggest that discrimination, gender inequality and slavery are rampant in the UK is simply as absurd as the suggestion that these things do not exist in the EU.

always_sunny

cogito wrote: »

That isn't what I said. The point I am making is at after Brexit i.e. in the future, the EU want the ECJ to have supremacy over UK courts. How many or how few is irrelevant - one would be too many.

EU human rights have mainly been driven by the UK so we are hardly going to tear them up when we exit the EU. And to suggest that discrimination, gender inequality and slavery are rampant in the UK is simply as absurd as the suggestion that these things do not exist in the EU.

The EU wants the ECJ to have supremacy over UK courts if the country is part of the SM accepting the 4 freedoms including FoM. If EU nationals can move freely within member states, then fair enough the ECJ should be in place.

The UK could leave the EU and the SM with no FoM (isn't it the preferred option) and therefore not be subject to the ECJ.
I don't really understand the fascination in the UK about ECJ when in fact it has very little impact on the country.