If we vote for Brexit what happens

mwpt

CLAPTON wrote: »

'Blame' isn't the issue : the issue is whether you want to actually DO sometime about immigration or not.
If you do want to reduce immigration, then one has to leave the EU, as all their citizens have unrestrictive access to the UK.

Apart from high house prices in London, what is the problem with immigration?

According to the stats I saw, EU nationals who come here are a net positive for the economy and tax receipts. In other words, we can build and improve services more to cater for the increased population, and then some.

The UK has high immigration and has the best economic growth in the EU.

mayonnaise

wotsthat wrote: »

I'm happy with the life I've had in the EU so will stick with with it.

Happy also, so will positively vote to stay in. :T

It's all too easy to take for granted the prosperity and stability delivered by being part of the largest free trade area in the world for the past 40 years.

mayonnaise

gfplux wrote: »

Why doesn't Clapton show his location.
there are too many people posting about this subject who are hiding where they live. IMO where you live in the UK will have an influence on your views on this subject.

No problem with showing my location. Englefield Green, Surrey.
Lots of immigration to these parts, many foreign students also attending Royal Holloway. A real melting pot of nationalities, races, religions and ideas. Love it.
Not too many Little Englanders around which is a bonus also.

Tromking

gfplux wrote: »

Well it appears to have done. I am probably in the wrong place to notice as I live in the middle of mainland Europe.

I see that you are not prepared to show your location, why?

You missed the far right in France polling 42% of the vote in the recent regional elections, the news on monday that a right wing anti-immigration party in Germany made significant gains also, and you've obviously missed a succession of former communist states finding solace in dubious nationalist governments as well.I could go on and talk about the other borderline fascists doing rather well in Holland, Sweden, Denmark, Austria and Greece and I`ve probably missed a few more too.
You and your beloved mainland Europe seem to be sleepwalking toward chaos, at least that`s my perception from my market town on the edge of Dartmoor.

bugslet

mwpt wrote: »

Apart from high house prices in London, what is the problem with immigration?

.

Because for some people, they have seen their pay cut as a direct result of competition.

Competition and driving down costs is lauded all over, but when you see your hourly rate cut, everything else pales into insignificance.

I'm not talking personally, nor for my employees, but other sectors in my industry have been hit badly.

mayonnaise

Tromking wrote: »

You missed the far right in France polling 42% of the vote in the recent regional elections, the news on monday that a right wing anti-immigration party in Germany made significant gains also, and you've obviously missed a succession of former communist states finding solace in dubious nationalist governments as well.I could go on and talk about the other borderline fascists doing rather well in Holland, Sweden, Denmark, Austria and Greece and I`ve probably missed a few more too.
You and your beloved mainland Europe seem to be sleepwalking toward chaos, at least that`s my perception from my market town on the edge of Dartmoor.

And our far right anti-immigration party came first in the 2014 EU elections with 27% of the vote. Not sure what your point is to be honest.

mwpt

bugslet wrote: »

Because for some people, they have seen their pay cut as a direct result of competition.

Competition and driving down costs is lauded all over, but when you see your hourly rate cut, everything else pales into insignificance.

I'm not talking personally, nor for my employees, but other sectors in my industry have been hit badly.

Ok, I understand this concern. Two points to make.

1) Pay cuts are going to happen almost regardless of immigration. We have automation and globalisation suppressing wages though both are debatable if people skill up (don't want to go into that as I don't think the evidence supports it in practice). If companies don't get cheaper wages here and they can offshore or automate, they'll do it. So immigration is almost (not quite) irrelevant here.

2) Wages aren't isolated from the real economy. If companies drive their costs down (and wages are a big cost), this gets passed on to the consumer. So indirectly, low wages benefits most of us in some form indirectly.

So, say we got rid of all low wage workers, what happens? Well if companies successfully offshore, we get unemployment. If companies don't and must pay higher wages, the costs get passed on to us anyway.

That's not a complete argument, just another way to look at it.

Rinoa

Just for those who believe all trade with the EU will cease after Brexit.

The London Stock Exchange Group (LSE) and Deutsche Boerse have agreed terms for a "merger of equals".
The tie-up will create one of the largest exchange companies in the world with a combined value of about £21bn.
Under the terms of the deal, LSE shareholders will own 45.6% of the new holding company, while Deutsche Boerse shareholders will own 54.4%.
LSE chief executive Xavier Rolet said the two firms were "creating an industry-defining combination".
The two companies said together they should be able to make cost savings of €450m (£354m) a year, about 20% of the combined group's operating costs of €2.2bn last year.
The LSE group already owns Milan-based Borsa Italiana.
The two exchanges said the "combination of London, Frankfurt and Milan will provide a platform for financing and promoting economic growth of European companies and be an attractive offering to Asian and US companies looking to access investors and capital"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35818997

Neither company appear to be worried about Brexit and the deal is not dependent on the result of the referendum.

bugslet

mwpt, I do understand that, but you asked what the problem with immigration was besides house prices.

You are talking about the big picture, I was talking on an individual level.

To the person who used to earn £10.00 and now earns £7.50, costs coming down seems remote. They just know that they earn less and that £2.50 x 40 hours ( probably more if you factor in overtime ) is not made up with those lower costs.

I've just found out that my IFA, who is working on his second masters so not an uneducated chap, is voting out. From previous conversations I suspect my accountant will as well, again not an uneducated man.

Generali

bugslet wrote: »

Because for some people, they have seen their pay cut as a direct result of competition.

Competition and driving down costs is lauded all over, but when you see your hourly rate cut, everything else pales into insignificance.

I'm not talking personally, nor for my employees, but other sectors in my industry have been hit badly.

But you can't just have a free market for everyone else and have your own industry featherbedded.

If you want to benefit from being able to buy your groceries from a bunch of stores that are competing on price, quality and service; be able to take advantage of the huge breakthroughs in technology; be able to live a longer, healthier life that has resulted from Big Pharma's immense leaps forward in products then you also have to live with competition in your own industry.