If we vote for Brexit what happens

CLAPTON

danothy wrote: »

That's not what you'd have if we left the EU. You neither get a vote on UK laws, nor the UK parliament as a whole. You can vote for a member of that parliament to represent your interests though, just as you can vote for a member of the European parliament to represent your interest.

In the european parliament, the nationals of 27 other european countries get to vote on UK laws.

kabayiri

What's the point in arguing about entrenched positions?

It's in the middle ground where the referendum will be won and lost. Those who are undecided; or those who demonstrate a propensity to flip positions.

Work out how to hook these voters and you are on to a winner IMO.

danothy

CLAPTON wrote: »

In the european parliament, the nationals of 27 other european countries get to vote on UK laws.

No, they get to vote on European laws, but if you want to think of it like that, in the UK parliament 649 other regions get to vote on your region's laws.

CLAPTON

danothy wrote: »

No, they get to vote on European laws, but if you want to think of it like that, in the UK parliament 649 other regions get to vote on your region's laws.

I understand your logic 100%
why don't you understand mine even if you don't agree with me?

mwpt

cells wrote: »

if you believe this you should spend some time trying to convince them why you think they are wrong and a stay vote is in the national interest

I can't. Even my partner is leaning a little toward voting out (I don't think she will though) and when I ask her about what EU rulings negatively impact her she went on a rant about a murder case which was overturned. I had never heard of it, so couldn't argue. I tried to reason that perhaps EU laws which she isn't aware of are having a positive impact on her life every day but that doesn't resonate.

I think most people are entrenched already, but there may be a some who are teetering who will lean toward 'leave' if they perceive what fears they do have as being belittled.

danothy

CLAPTON wrote: »

I understand your logic 100%
why don't you understand mine even if you don't agree with me?

Because you are advocating a course of action, leaving the EU, that simply won't lead to your explicitly stated desired outcome, being able to vote on UK laws, and is hence not logical. Interestingly, you have also stated that you explicitly (ideologically) want some people to have more rights than others to live somewhere based on nothing more than accident of birth. There's no objective criteria to that ideology, and is hence not logical.

CLAPTON

danothy wrote: »

Because you are advocating a course of action, leaving the EU, that simply won't lead to your explicitly stated desired outcome, being able to vote on UK laws, and is hence not logical. Interestingly, you have also stated that you explicitly (ideologically) want some people to have more rights than others to live somewhere based on nothing more than accident of birth. There's no objective criteria to that ideology, and is hence not logical.

I indeed want some people to have more rights than others based on an accident of birth.

for example, I do not want a lot of people who believe in FGM or killing gay people or wanting to kill people who don't believe in their beliefs, to have a majority of votes where I live.

I think my position is a very logical one : that is, one that stops me being killed.
I can understand why Hamish may not share my wish to survive but we often disagree, usually on less important issues

danothy

CLAPTON wrote: »

I indeed want some people to have more rights than others based on an accident of birth.

for example, I do not want a lot of people who believe in FGM or killing gay people or wanting to kill people who don't believe in their beliefs, to have a majority of votes where I live.

I think my position is a very logical one : that is, one that stops me being killed.
I can understand why Hamish may not share my wish to survive but we often disagree, usually on less important issues

And if a load of native voters developed these views you'd seek to have them removed? I doubt it as you've already said that you find that concept disgusting. This is the non-logical thing, you keep saying you have a problem with one thing and imply the problem is inherent to the non-native population, say capacity or morality, but you propose that the solution is to separate from the EU which wouldn't address the same problem in a native population, and tellingly you wouldn't even hypothetically want it dealt with in the native population. You're not logical about it at all, you're just trying (failing) to justify a "not them" mentality.

CLAPTON

danothy wrote: »

And if a load of native voters developed these views you'd seek to have them removed? I doubt it as you've already said that you find that concept disgusting. This is the non-logical thing, you keep saying you have a problem with one thing and imply the problem is inherent to the non-native population, say capacity or morality, but you propose that the solution is to separate from the EU which wouldn't address the same problem in a native population, and tellingly you wouldn't even hypothetically want it dealt with in the native population. You're not logical about it at all, you're just trying (failing) to justify a "not them" mentality.

You are confusing yourself by your absurd moral constructs that conflict with reality.
I wish to live amoungst and be governed by people with similar cultural baggage as myself.
I want to live where people value democracy and not theocracy, that are tolerant of other people who wise me no harm.

I am motivated by practical concerns and not your somewhat bizarre hypothetical views.

I wish to be able to vote for an MP who in turn votes in the UK parliament. Should a time come that I change my mind, then that's fine and I will do so.

bugslet

mwpt wrote: »

I can't. Even my partner is leaning a little toward voting out (I don't think she will though) and when I ask her about what EU rulings negatively impact her she went on a rant about a murder case which was overturned. I had never heard of it, so couldn't argue. I tried to reason that perhaps EU laws which she isn't aware of are having a positive impact on her life every day but that doesn't resonate.

I think most people are entrenched already, but there may be a some who are teetering who will lean toward 'leave' if they perceive what fears they do have as being belittled.

mwpt, I do like your posts, you manage to be clear and polite and I often thank them, even if I am on the other side so to speak.

So far for wishing to vote out, and it was a recent conversion so could yet change my mind, I have been called racist, little minded, a bigot and uneducated. None of which I am. As you mention belittling fears, so is cheap name calling more likely to turn off a potential dithering voter.

Of course, that works both ways.